Author Topic: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display  (Read 6819 times)

Offline DrBobke

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PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« on: October 14, 2016, 11:17:02 AM »
Hi all!

First off, Hello! I am new to this program and to this forum! 

Right now, I am using PM5 (build 16438 (e61be25), which is a trial version.  I do like the program a lot for culling purposes and then going to LightRoom.  PM5 speeds up the culling process significantly.

However, on my laptop (Dell XPS15 with UHD display), the images are fuzzy (yes, they are in focus), but I do believe this has something to do with it being UHD (15,6 inch 4K Ultra HD (3.840 x 2.160) InfinityEdge with touch) - http://www.dell.com/be/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd - not sure if this link is visible to all? (specs are : 16GB Ram, 512Gb SSD, Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ [6e generation Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ Quad Core (6 MB cache, up to 3,5 GHz)], WIN 10, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 960M with 2 GB GDDR5).

I did find multiple posts regarding Retina displays on Macs (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=7068.0 and
http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=10076.0), which seem to be the same issues, but that was a post from 2012 and should have been taken care of since.  However, it seems not to work on my machine.

My trial is for another 10 days, but I want to see if this can be fixed, prior to buying a license, otherwise, it's no use to me.

I think it is due to the UHD screen, but if there is a setting or something else that anyone thinks of, please let me know!

PS: I use a Canon 5D iii (and two Canon 7D's) and import to .dng in LR, after that, I go into PM5 and do the culling (* images that I want to keep, the rest I will remove in LR once synced the images).  Is it better to use .cr2 files?

Best regards,

DrBobke
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 11:22:19 AM by DrBobke »

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2016, 11:26:05 AM »
Dr. Bobke,

First off, Hello! I am new to this program and to this forum! 

Right now, I am using PM5 (build 16438 (e61be25), which is a trial version.  I do like the program a lot for culling purposes and then going to LightRoom.  PM5 speeds up the culling process significantly.

However, on my laptop (Dell XPS15 with UHD display), the images are fuzzy (yes, they are in focus), but I do believe this has something to do with it being UHD (15,6 inch 4K Ultra HD (3.840 x 2.160) InfinityEdge with touch) - http://www.dell.com/be/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd - not sure if this link is visible to all? (specs are : 16GB Ram, 512Gb SSD, Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ [6e generation Intel® Core™ i7-6700HQ Quad Core (6 MB cache, up to 3,5 GHz)], WIN 10, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 960M with 2 GB GDDR5).

I did find multiple posts regarding Retina displays on Macs (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=7068.0 and
http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=10076.0), which seem to be the same issues, but that was a post from 2012 and should have been taken care of since.  However, it seems not to work on my machine.

My trial is for another 10 days, but I want to see if this can be fixed, prior to buying a license, otherwise, it's no use to me.

I think it is due to the UHD screen, but if there is a setting or something else that anyone thinks of, please let me know!

What DPI setting are you using for your monitor?  PM should show your images in the resolution indicated by the system.

PS: I use a Canon 5D iii (and two Canon 7D's) and import to .dng in LR, after that, I go into PM5 and do the culling (* images that I want to keep, the rest I will remove in LR once synced the images).  Is it better to use .cr2 files?

Are you setting your DNG previews to be large?  If they're low resolution, then PM can't make them into a higher resolution.  PM uses the embedded JPEG preview in DNG and other RAW formats like CR2.

-Kirk

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2016, 02:23:48 PM »
Hi Kirk,

Thanks a lot for your quick reply!

Where can I find the DPI Settings?  If you mean the screens' capabilities: 3.840 * 2.160?

My DNG reviews are usually set to 1:1 previews, but I also render smart previews.

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2016, 02:43:56 PM »
just tried setting the screen resolution to 1920*1080, but no change in the sharpness of the images (I shut down PM5 and restarted it), however, I didn't delete the cache, should I?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2016, 05:07:57 PM »
Where can I find the DPI Settings?  If you mean the screens' capabilities: 3.840 * 2.160?

In the Displays control panel in Windows.

-Kirk

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2016, 05:08:42 PM »
just tried setting the screen resolution to 1920*1080, but no change in the sharpness of the images (I shut down PM5 and restarted it), however, I didn't delete the cache, should I?

It shouldn't be necessary.

I'd like to see a screenshot of your Preview window showing an image.  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your JPEG format screenshot.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2016, 11:06:12 PM »
just tried setting the screen resolution to 1920*1080, but no change in the sharpness of the images (I shut down PM5 and restarted it), however, I didn't delete the cache, should I?

It shouldn't be necessary.

I'd like to see a screenshot of your Preview window showing an image.  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your JPEG format screenshot.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Hi Kirk,

Thanks a lot for your help so far!

I have attached 2 screenshots from PM5, the first is a 100% view, the second is zoomed in to 400%.
I also attached a screenshot from LR, at 1:1 preview, so it's evident the shot is in focus...

Thank you so much for your help!

DrBobke

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2016, 11:30:22 PM »
Dr. Bobke,

The embedded preview in your DNG file is extremely low resolution (1024x683) and is being stretched over 200%.  You likely have your Preview set to enlarge to fit.  If you turn this off, you'll see a much smaller preview in the center of the display area.

You need to get your DNG files updated with a large preview which should be nearly the same size as your original RAW file.  Then the display resolution should look much better.  Still, the embedded JPEG preview will never be of the quality of an actual RAW rendering.

-Kirk

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 01:13:27 AM »
Hi Kirk,

Thanks a lot for your anwer and sorry for not getting back to you sooner (I had a wedding to shoot).
You were right about the preview setting : I unticked the box "enlarge to fit" and the previews are much smaller.  Is there a difference here, if I leave the files as .cr2?  Or is there a setting in the 5D iii that I can change so the embedded jpeg preview is larger?

I also rendered smart previews and standard previews in LR and pointed PM5 to those folders, but that is not giving me anything.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2016, 08:59:44 AM »
Dr Bobke,

Thanks a lot for your anwer and sorry for not getting back to you sooner (I had a wedding to shoot).
You were right about the preview setting : I unticked the box "enlarge to fit" and the previews are much smaller.  Is there a difference here, if I leave the files as .cr2?  Or is there a setting in the 5D iii that I can change so the embedded jpeg preview is larger?

You should be able to adjust your camera to produce larger previews in the CR2 files.

I also rendered smart previews and standard previews in LR and pointed PM5 to those folders, but that is not giving me anything.

The DNG files themselves need to be updated with larger previews.  PM can't access any of the previews that Lr writes to its database.

This may be of help to you:  http://lightroomkillertips.com/video-dng-and-auto-saving-changes/

-Kirk

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 06:29:27 AM »
Dr Bobke,

Thanks a lot for your anwer and sorry for not getting back to you sooner (I had a wedding to shoot).
You were right about the preview setting : I unticked the box "enlarge to fit" and the previews are much smaller.  Is there a difference here, if I leave the files as .cr2?  Or is there a setting in the 5D iii that I can change so the embedded jpeg preview is larger?

You should be able to adjust your camera to produce larger previews in the CR2 files.

I also rendered smart previews and standard previews in LR and pointed PM5 to those folders, but that is not giving me anything.

The DNG files themselves need to be updated with larger previews.  PM can't access any of the previews that Lr writes to its database.

This may be of help to you:  http://lightroomkillertips.com/video-dng-and-auto-saving-changes/

-Kirk


I have been looking around my Canon 5D iii, but I can't find anything that looks like an option to me to increase the size of the jpeg preview in the RAW file. (Just to state the obvious, I only shoot RAW, not jpeg (so the images will not eat extra memory).

I also tried downloading the video, I tried on 2 computers and two different browsers, but to no avail, it says there is an network error (I assume on their side).  Also from the comments in that post, I can't seem to get an answer..

Thanks again for your help!

Offline MickO

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 09:43:32 AM »
Hi Dr Bobke,

I also wanted to chime in to try to help.

One thing I am curious about.  If you look at your CR2 files in Photo Mechanic before creating DNGs or before doing anything with Lightroom, how do they look?

I ask this because it is far more common for folks to do their culling in Photo Mechanic before going into Lightroom.  It should be faster that way, as you are not rendering/converting anything that you are just going to cull away anyway.

-Mick
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Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2016, 10:24:05 AM »
Hi Dr Bobke,

I also wanted to chime in to try to help.

One thing I am curious about.  If you look at your CR2 files in Photo Mechanic before creating DNGs or before doing anything with Lightroom, how do they look?

I ask this because it is far more common for folks to do their culling in Photo Mechanic before going into Lightroom.  It should be faster that way, as you are not rendering/converting anything that you are just going to cull away anyway.

-Mick

Awesome, Mick!

That actually makes sense too, culling in PM5 before going to LR :)  Also, the CR2 files, before moving them to LR, look good in the preview and I can zoom in to see if it's in focus or not.

Would you recommend me to cull the images in PM5 straight from the SD/CF card and move them to the HDD in LR later? (Will this create or save the xmp files alongside the cr2 files on the card, so I can import only the 1* into LR for example? (I usually set 1* to keep and none to delete in PM5).

Another question : I like to do back ups of my cards every time I can, this is why I usually set "mark for deletion" (pressing "X") in LR, so when I carry on shooting on the same card (without erasing it), I can easily still import new photo's (in stead of it taking everything in again).  This way, I still have a back up of my pictures (in case of HDD failure, laptop being stolen from location or dying on me,...).  Yes, I am paranoid about this, but only because it has already happened to me in the past...

Or, alternatively, can I delete the "no stars" from PM5 directly?
Or, import everything into LR, without converting to dng, so the CR2 files still remain? (yes, I would have to import everything first).

Hope you understand my query?

Thanks again for your help Mick and Kirk!

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2016, 10:35:47 AM »
Dr. Bobke,

I also wanted to chime in to try to help.

One thing I am curious about.  If you look at your CR2 files in Photo Mechanic before creating DNGs or before doing anything with Lightroom, how do they look?

I ask this because it is far more common for folks to do their culling in Photo Mechanic before going into Lightroom.  It should be faster that way, as you are not rendering/converting anything that you are just going to cull away anyway.

That actually makes sense too, culling in PM5 before going to LR :)  Also, the CR2 files, before moving them to LR, look good in the preview and I can zoom in to see if it's in focus or not.

Would you recommend me to cull the images in PM5 straight from the SD/CF card and move them to the HDD in LR later? (Will this create or save the xmp files alongside the cr2 files on the card, so I can import only the 1* into LR for example? (I usually set 1* to keep and none to delete in PM5).

We never suggest editing on the card.  Use PM5's Ingest to download first, then cull.

Another question : I like to do back ups of my cards every time I can, this is why I usually set "mark for deletion" (pressing "X") in LR, so when I carry on shooting on the same card (without erasing it), I can easily still import new photo's (in stead of it taking everything in again).  This way, I still have a back up of my pictures (in case of HDD failure, laptop being stolen from location or dying on me,...).  Yes, I am paranoid about this, but only because it has already happened to me in the past...

Turning on Incremental Ingest in the Ingest dialog will keep PM from downloading images it has already downloaded.  Note: Ingest can copy to two destinations, giving you a backup.

Or, alternatively, can I delete the "no stars" from PM5 directly?

Sure, you'd do this in your culling process after you have Ingested the card.

Or, import everything into LR, without converting to dng, so the CR2 files still remain? (yes, I would have to import everything first).

This would be much slower, but you can do it that way too.  To get the most out of PM/Lr: Ingest with PM, cull with PM, rename/classify/rate/crop/add metadata with PM, import into Lr, make adjustments in Lr.

Note, if you don't convert to DNG (and force that conversion to have large previews) then PM won't display the adjustments you made in Lr.  Lr won't update the embedded previews in RAW files like CR2 and as such PM will be showing the as shot preview.  Lr can update the previews in DNG files however.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline DrBobke

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Re: PM5 fuzzy previews in contact sheet on UHD Display
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2016, 11:59:48 PM »
Awesome! It seems to work really well now! :) Thanks for that. I will now just play around with it a little more and check for running promotions of the software! :)