Author Topic: Nikon NEF raw files and IPTC/XMP embedded or XMP sidecar files  (Read 5630 times)

Offline archer69

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First of all, if the support and responsiveness that is shown in this forum by the Camera Bit s Staff is any indication of the software you develop, then it's must be one of the best available...a big BRAVO  ;D

I'm just evaluating PM4.4.3.3 since a couple of days.

The main reason is that when I use Adobe Bridge for adding keywords etc. to the Nikon NEF files and then open it in Capture NX for editing, NX does not read the XMP sidecar files generated by Bridge. Therefore, all the information (keyword etc.) is lost if I save the file from NX as a JPG or TIF.

Using PM to keyword and write other information to the NEF files, this information seems to be stored inside the file itself and both Bridge and NX can read it, and it's still there after editing a NEF file in NX and safe it as TIF or JPG.

Question 1:
You advised several times to other people that PM is set for XMP Sidecar files when using Adobe products (= set PM preference to update existing XMP files or create one if not present). Why can't I just use the embedded IPTC or XMP files? It seems to work fine without sidecar.

Question 2:
Any idea when PM 4.5 will be release? I'm looking forward to the 'star rating' and 'structured keyword list' capabilities and compatibility with Adobe (and other applications).

Regards
Archer
Regards,
Juerg H.
www.jh-photography.net

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Nikon NEF raw files and IPTC/XMP embedded or XMP sidecar files
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 10:07:34 AM »
Archer,

First of all, if the support and responsiveness that is shown in this forum by the Camera Bit s Staff is any indication of the software you develop, then it's must be one of the best available...a big BRAVO  ;D

I'm just evaluating PM4.4.3.3 since a couple of days.

The main reason is that when I use Adobe Bridge for adding keywords etc. to the Nikon NEF files and then open it in Capture NX for editing, NX does not read the XMP sidecar files generated by Bridge. Therefore, all the information (keyword etc.) is lost if I save the file from NX as a JPG or TIF.

Using PM to keyword and write other information to the NEF files, this information seems to be stored inside the file itself and both Bridge and NX can read it, and it's still there after editing a NEF file in NX and safe it as TIF or JPG.

Question 1:
You advised several times to other people that PM is set for XMP Sidecar files when using Adobe products (= set PM preference to update existing XMP files or create one if not present). Why can't I just use the embedded IPTC or XMP files? It seems to work fine without sidecar.

"Seems" is a great word to describe the situation.  What can happen is that when you do RAW adjustments with Bridge and/or ACR they will create an XMP sidecar file, but when you go to adjust that photo again and it has XMP embedded into it, Bridge and ACR prefer the embedded XMP (even though they don't update it) and no longer find the adjustment settings (they ignore their own XMP sidecar file because of the preference to use the embedded XMP) and it seems as though the adjustments are lost.

Going to a purely XMP sidecar workflow solves this problem.

Since you are only using Bridge for adding keywords, why not add them with PM instead?  It will take one more application out of your workflow and give you better compatibility with Capture NX.

Quote from: archer69
Question 2:
Any idea when PM 4.5 will be release? I'm looking forward to the 'star rating' and 'structured keyword list' capabilities and compatibility with Adobe (and other applications).

I have no firm release date.  Sorry.

-Kirk

Offline archer69

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Re: Nikon NEF raw files and IPTC/XMP embedded or XMP sidecar files
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 11:50:57 AM »
Kirk,

Thanks for the explanation about embedded XMP data and XMP sidecar, but that brings up another question:

Since I have Capture NX, I don't use ACR anymore to convert my NEF's (NX is much more powerfull in that regard). Therefore I don't really miss out on ACR not updating the file XMP date, but only the sidecar data.

But, to clarify, I use Bridge not only to add keywords etc (which I most likely will do with PM from now on), but also as a filebroser in which I rate and colorcode the pictures. The reason that I use Bridge and not PM for that is that the rating system in Bridge is much better, but also that i'm able to search a whole folder structure for files with specific atributes. As soon as PM has the rating system like Bridge AND the folder structure (including subfolder) find functionality, I don't think I need Bridge any longer.

Archer
Regards,
Juerg H.
www.jh-photography.net

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Nikon NEF raw files and IPTC/XMP embedded or XMP sidecar files
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »
Archer,

Thanks for the explanation about embedded XMP data and XMP sidecar, but that brings up another question:

Since I have Capture NX, I don't use ACR anymore to convert my NEF's (NX is much more powerfull in that regard). Therefore I don't really miss out on ACR not updating the file XMP date, but only the sidecar data.

But, to clarify, I use Bridge not only to add keywords etc (which I most likely will do with PM from now on), but also as a filebroser in which I rate and colorcode the pictures. The reason that I use Bridge and not PM for that is that the rating system in Bridge is much better, but also that i'm able to search a whole folder structure for files with specific atributes. As soon as PM has the rating system like Bridge AND the folder structure (including subfolder) find functionality, I don't think I need Bridge any longer.

I didn't actually see a question in there, but I have comments for you.

5-star rating systems are really nothing new.  Our Color Classes are very flexible in that they can be used to classify pictures, or if you wish, to rate them.  Version 4.5 will have a 5-star rating system compatible with Bridge, etc. and the ability to open subfolders recursively so you will indeed be able to do your searches.  (Within limits, meaning don't expect to open up an entire hard drive full of photos as a single contact sheet since PM is not designed to handle hundreds of thousands of images at once.)

-Kirk