Author Topic: Shutter count variable  (Read 15030 times)

Offline drmrbrewer

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Shutter count variable
« on: March 26, 2007, 02:06:54 AM »
Forgive me if this variable already exists and I just overlooked it, but I would find it useful to be able to extract the "shutter count" information from the file with a photo mechanic variable.  The "shutter count" is embedded in Nikon images, at least, and is different to the "frame number" for which there is already a variable.  The "shutter count" relates to the total number of shutter actuations, and is never reset (never say never).  Separate variables for full and four (least significant) digits versions would be useful.  See e.g. http://gogebic-pc.home.comcast.net/shutter/whatitdoes.html.

Thanks,

Mike

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 06:48:53 AM »
Mike,

Forgive me if this variable already exists and I just overlooked it, but I would find it useful to be able to extract the "shutter count" information from the file with a photo mechanic variable.  The "shutter count" is embedded in Nikon images, at least, and is different to the "frame number" for which there is already a variable.  The "shutter count" relates to the total number of shutter actuations, and is never reset (never say never).  Separate variables for full and four (least significant) digits versions would be useful.  See e.g. http://gogebic-pc.home.comcast.net/shutter/whatitdoes.html.

It's already there: {actuations} or {act}

-Kirk

Offline drmrbrewer

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 07:06:59 AM »
Hi Kirk

Thanks.  In what version was this introduced?  I ask because:

(a) I can't actually run the most recent versions of photo mechanic on my system (hanging issue reported http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=1096.0).  It turns out that the most recent version I can run with stability on my system is 4.3.8; and

(b) The manual for version 4.4 (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=409.0) doesn't refer to an actuations variable.

In any case, if this variable provides a variable-length string, would it be possible to have a fixed-length (truncated) alternative, a bit like frame4 or year2?  My current file naming scheme preserves the frame number from the as-shot name as a quick identifier (and to provide uniqueness to the filename), but I think that the shutter count would be more meaningful than the frame number (which is more arbitrary, and resettable).  However, I'd prefer to stick to a fixed-length filename, so might only use (perhaps) the least four significant digits (padded with zeros if necessary).

Thanks,

Mike

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 08:40:03 AM »
The manual for version 4.4 (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=409.0) doesn't refer to an actuations variable.

The {actuations} variable was added after the manual was written.  The Variables panel/drawer will always show you the entire list of available variables.

Quote from: drmrbrewer
In any case, if this variable provides a variable-length string, would it be possible to have a fixed-length (truncated) alternative, a bit like frame4 or year2?  My current file naming scheme preserves the frame number from the as-shot name as a quick identifier (and to provide uniqueness to the filename), but I think that the shutter count would be more meaningful than the frame number (which is more arbitrary, and resettable).  However, I'd prefer to stick to a fixed-length filename, so might only use (perhaps) the least four significant digits (padded with zeros if necessary).

It should always be eight digits long, padded with zeroes.  Note that some cameras do not support a shutter count, and some that do have such a feature report an inaccurate shutter count (20D, 30D).

-Kirk

Offline drmrbrewer

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 09:08:36 AM »
Thanks, Kirk.  No chance of a truncated four-digit version, to create a useful (IMHO!) alternative to frame4?  Like I said, apart from providing uniqueness to my file names (which are otherwise based on date/time), I find having a four-digit code in the filename useful as a quick identifier... not totally unique, but unique within the last 10,000 images taken, and certainly helpful to locate a cataloged image in a jiffy with just four digits to type in... could put the full 8 digits in the filename but then things start to get a little out of hand... (and it also starts to eat into valuable space in the 40 character limit for the filename printed on the back of my lab prints).

Mike

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 11:03:51 AM »
Mike,

Thanks, Kirk.  No chance of a truncated four-digit version, to create a useful (IMHO!) alternative to frame4?  Like I said, apart from providing uniqueness to my file names (which are otherwise based on date/time), I find having a four-digit code in the filename useful as a quick identifier... not totally unique, but unique within the last 10,000 images taken, and certainly helpful to locate a cataloged image in a jiffy with just four digits to type in... could put the full 8 digits in the filename but then things start to get a little out of hand... (and it also starts to eat into valuable space in the 40 character limit for the filename printed on the back of my lab prints).

In 4.5 you could obtain this by doing:

{act:-4,4}

which would extract the last 4 characters of the variable.

-Kirk

Offline drmrbrewer

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 11:07:00 AM »
Great.  Thanks, Kirk.  I look forward to being able to use 4.5+.

Mike

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 05:30:17 PM »
I hope drmrbrewer's newer version issues will solve.

It should always be eight digits long, padded with zeroes.  Note that some cameras do not support a shutter count, and some that do have such a feature report an inaccurate shutter count (20D, 30D).

It is interresting since I allways get non zero padded shutter counts. My camera is an EOS 1D mk2 and seems to show quite precise numbers as I know my service checks but it is not a fix 8 digit string (at least in the info text I don't see the padding zeros).
What is more interresting for me is how can it be that JPGs exported by PM itself doesn't show me the actuations number nor the frame number variable. Is it possible that PM doesn't transfer all info from the original RAW to the extracted image? Can it be corrected somehow?

And is there a list of camera models known to give valid actuations info?
Working on Mac, OSX, iOS and with some Canons.
Allways shooting RAW.

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Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 06:44:55 PM »
It should always be eight digits long, padded with zeroes.  Note that some cameras do not support a shutter count, and some that do have such a feature report an inaccurate shutter count (20D, 30D).

It is interresting since I allways get non zero padded shutter counts. My camera is an EOS 1D mk2 and seems to show quite precise numbers as I know my service checks but it is not a fix 8 digit string (at least in the info text I don't see the padding zeros).
What is more interresting for me is how can it be that JPGs exported by PM itself doesn't show me the actuations number nor the frame number variable. Is it possible that PM doesn't transfer all info from the original RAW to the extracted image? Can it be corrected somehow?

And is there a list of camera models known to give valid actuations info?

When the JPEGs are extracted from the RAW files, we can't just take the EXIF data and reuse it since it contains proprietary Maker notes that do not apply to standalone JPEGs.  We may create an EXIF block that has as much of the RAW's EXIF as possible in the future.

-Kirk

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2007, 12:43:50 AM »
Quote
When the JPEGs are extracted from the RAW files, we can't just take the EXIF data and reuse it since it contains proprietary Maker notes that do not apply to standalone JPEGs.  We may create an EXIF block that has as much of the RAW's EXIF as possible in the future.

I was surprised to see this, but now I see the reason. However a solution could help. Sometimes the Breeze Browser EXIF copy function is a quite handy tool to use on images that lost their metadata during the process...
Working on Mac, OSX, iOS and with some Canons.
Allways shooting RAW.

http://www.volgyiattila.com

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2007, 11:13:08 PM »
In the last few days I had the Canon service guys check my shutter count in the Canon EOS 1D mk2 and they said a completely different number than that PM results the {act} variable. Is it possible that PM reads a non resetting actuations number that is not affected by shutter replacements? Or does anyone know anything about it?
Working on Mac, OSX, iOS and with some Canons.
Allways shooting RAW.

http://www.volgyiattila.com

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2007, 11:15:32 PM »
In the last few days I had the Canon service guys check my shutter count in the Canon EOS 1D mk2 and they said a completely different number than that PM results the {act} variable. Is it possible that PM reads a non resetting actuations number that is not affected by shutter replacements? Or does anyone know anything about it?

I heard recently that there is another number that is stored inside the camera that only the Canon techs have access to that is not written out to any image files at all.  Maybe this is the number they were referring to?

-Kirk

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2007, 01:57:31 PM »
I heard recently that there is another number that is stored inside the camera that only the Canon techs have access to that is not written out to any image files at all.  Maybe this is the number they were referring to?

This can happen. They said that my {act} number (given by PM) can be scrambled by using my cards in different cameras but they tend to be rather sequential so I guess the number read by PM may be a counter not reset when the shutter is changed, and Canon has their own counter that they reset when replace the shutter. My camera had a shutter replacement around 65 thousand images and the difference between PM {act} number and Canon service actuations status is about the same.
Working on Mac, OSX, iOS and with some Canons.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 03:56:11 PM »
If you copy settings (using Canons save/load settings menu choices in the Mark II for example), the actuations that PM (and other utilities) sees are also copied from one camera to the other. The number on the recipient camera will then be a different number than Canon Service pulls up on the bench, which should be the actual actuations for that shutter.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Shutter count variable
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2007, 04:09:55 PM »
If you copy settings (using Canons save/load settings menu choices in the Mark II for example), the actuations that PM (and other utilities) sees are also copied from one camera to the other. The number on the recipient camera will then be a different number than Canon Service pulls up on the bench, which should be the actual actuations for that shutter.

Interesting.  So if one never uses that (copy settings) functionality, then the actuation count put into photos will always be the actual actuation count that Canon Service is privy to?

-Kirk