Author Topic: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images  (Read 219 times)

Offline Graham1

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My keywords are presently added alphabetically via Lightroom.  The alphabetical sorting does not reflect their importance, so I move the less important keywords to the end of the list.  For sorting out the keywords in a batch of images, I select all the images, then I have shortcuts (lightning bolt) set up for the keywords I commonly need to re-order.  Then I sequentially delete the ones that need to be moved using Find and Replace, then add them back in via the IPTC Stationery Pad (which has the corresponding shortcuts) which helpfully appends at the end of the keywords already applicable to the image.  This moves the selected keywords to the end of the list, to the order I want.

For example, any image taken anywhere in Europe will include keywords "Europe, European", and each image will contain a keyword for the season in which it was taken, including the generic "season, seasons".  I want to retain these keywords, but they are likely to be far less important than other more targetted keywords, and therefore I want these to appear at the end of the keyword list, not in their alphabetical order. And then if I have too many keywords, it will be the less important ones that are cut off.

My problem is that I often have a lot of keywords to move, and it takes a long time and a lot of keystrokes.  It would be great to have the following features which would make all this a lot easier:

1. Do not have the IPCT Stationery Pad auto dismiss on applying keywords (or have the option whether or not it acts in this way).  The Find and Replace dialogue box does not auto dismiss, so I can do the deletions sequentially by simply selecting the next snapshot, but each addition via the IPTC Stationery Pad requires it to be reloaded before the next snapshot can be selected, which can be very tedious if there are multiple changes to be made.

2. Give the IPTC Stationery Pad the option to aggregate keywords added via a shortcut, so that it only needs to be applied once.  In other words, have an option that the use of the shortcut appends its keywords to those keywords already in the IPTC Stationery Pad rather than replacing them, so that it is possible to use whatever shortcuts you want, in whatever order you want, and then only have to apply the IPTC Stationery Pad once.

3. Add a batch Find and Replace option.  Again the idea would be that several shortcut keywords could be loaded to be replaced, and all the replacements be implemented with one click.  Clearly the searches would have to be kept separate, because the several keywords to be replaced would not necessarily be contiguous and would therefore not be found if simply aggregated; therefore the simple appending suggested for the IPTC Stationery Pad in 2. above would not work.

If in fact any of these can already be achieved, please do let me know, but I have not been able to find a way to do any of the above.

Thank you for considering.

Graham

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2018, 01:36:36 pm »
Graham,

My problem is that I often have a lot of keywords to move, and it takes a long time and a lot of keystrokes.  It would be great to have the following features which would make all this a lot easier:

1. Do not have the IPCT Stationery Pad auto dismiss on applying keywords (or have the option whether or not it acts in this way).  The Find and Replace dialogue box does not auto dismiss, so I can do the deletions sequentially by simply selecting the next snapshot, but each addition via the IPTC Stationery Pad requires it to be reloaded before the next snapshot can be selected, which can be very tedious if there are multiple changes to be made.

2. Give the IPTC Stationery Pad the option to aggregate keywords added via a shortcut, so that it only needs to be applied once.  In other words, have an option that the use of the shortcut appends its keywords to those keywords already in the IPTC Stationery Pad rather than replacing them, so that it is possible to use whatever shortcuts you want, in whatever order you want, and then only have to apply the IPTC Stationery Pad once.

3. Add a batch Find and Replace option.  Again the idea would be that several shortcut keywords could be loaded to be replaced, and all the replacements be implemented with one click.  Clearly the searches would have to be kept separate, because the several keywords to be replaced would not necessarily be contiguous and would therefore not be found if simply aggregated; therefore the simple appending suggested for the IPTC Stationery Pad in 2. above would not work.

Have you tried using the Keywords panel?  It is available from the Image menu.  It may be much faster than using the IPTC Stationery Pad for your purpose.  It does not dismiss.

http://wiki.camerabits.com/en/index.php/User_Manual_Flat_View#Keywords_Panel

-Kirk

Offline Graham1

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Re: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 04:13:15 pm »
Thank you, yes the keywords panel is very useful and I have probably been using the wrong tool all this time.  It would still be good, however, if there were to be an option for multiple keywords to be appended in the order selected rather than alphabetically.

Graham

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2018, 08:09:36 pm »
Graham,

Thank you, yes the keywords panel is very useful and I have probably been using the wrong tool all this time.  It would still be good, however, if there were to be an option for multiple keywords to be appended in the order selected rather than alphabetically.

Just FYI, keywords are stored as an unordered list, which means that any app that reads and writes metadata may reorder your keywords anyway.

-Kirk

Offline Graham1

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Re: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 01:02:06 am »
Quote
Just FYI, keywords are stored as an unordered list, which means that any app that reads and writes metadata may reorder your keywords anyway.

Kirk

Thank you for your reply.  My stock agency respects the order of keywords in uploaded images.  It also has separate limits both on the number of keywords and on the total number of characters (which is why I have, if I remember correctly, requested counters so that users can see these numbers from within PM), with any excess simply being cut off when the images are processed by the agency.  I therefore want my most important keywords to appear earlier, and the filler keywords to appear at the end, so that if there is any truncation it is less important. 

Moreover, the agency says that the order and proximity of keywords is relevant to its search engine, so I spend time getting keywords in a sensible order, which again is respected on uploaded images.  The system of this particular agency is less than helpful in that the order of keywords cannot be changed after upload, which means that I need to get the order right before the images are submitted.

The order of keywords is therefore important for my particular usage, even though more generally some applications may not recognise the order.

Graham

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Adding, replacing and re-ordering keywords for a number of images
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 08:10:19 am »
Graham,

Quote
Just FYI, keywords are stored as an unordered list, which means that any app that reads and writes metadata may reorder your keywords anyway.

Thank you for your reply.  My stock agency respects the order of keywords in uploaded images.  It also has separate limits both on the number of keywords and on the total number of characters (which is why I have, if I remember correctly, requested counters so that users can see these numbers from within PM), with any excess simply being cut off when the images are processed by the agency.  I therefore want my most important keywords to appear earlier, and the filler keywords to appear at the end, so that if there is any truncation it is less important. 

Moreover, the agency says that the order and proximity of keywords is relevant to its search engine, so I spend time getting keywords in a sensible order, which again is respected on uploaded images.  The system of this particular agency is less than helpful in that the order of keywords cannot be changed after upload, which means that I need to get the order right before the images are submitted.

The order of keywords is therefore important for my particular usage, even though more generally some applications may not recognise the order.

It's not just that they may not recognize the order, it's that they are free to reorder the keywords.  So be aware of this when you use other software.

-Kirk