Author Topic: Write IPTC data to RAW file  (Read 1077 times)

Offline dredlew

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Write IPTC data to RAW file
« on: March 27, 2019, 12:22:50 PM »
Currently trialing PM6.0 and I'm looking to eventually use it for keywording. Since I'm sharing my images between various applications, I write my EXIF & IPTC data into the RAW files so I have the same data in every application. I have been doing this for years with thousands of images without issues. Not something I can say about XMP, it's just not reliable when it comes to compatibility. Not to mention that it clutters up the file system.

That said, I can't seem to figure out how to save IPTC data (keywords in my case) into the RAW file in PM6. It always seems to create an XMP file as soon as I assign a keyword and I don't see an option to actually write this information to the file. The forum search didn't seem to turn up much, mostly just issues with XMP. The PM settings do "allow RAW files to be modified" but this seems to be for "TIFF-based" RAW files. I have NEF & RAF files, not TIFF files.

So the questions I have; is writing IPTC to RAW possible and if so, where would I find this?

TIA!

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 12:47:14 PM »
Check your metadata preferences and make sure they are set to write metadata to the raw files.
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Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2019, 01:08:37 PM »
Currently trialing PM6.0 and I'm looking to eventually use it for keywording. Since I'm sharing my images between various applications, I write my EXIF & IPTC data into the RAW files so I have the same data in every application. I have been doing this for years with thousands of images without issues. Not something I can say about XMP, it's just not reliable when it comes to compatibility. Not to mention that it clutters up the file system.

That said, I can't seem to figure out how to save IPTC data (keywords in my case) into the RAW file in PM6. It always seems to create an XMP file as soon as I assign a keyword and I don't see an option to actually write this information to the file. The forum search didn't seem to turn up much, mostly just issues with XMP. The PM settings do "allow RAW files to be modified" but this seems to be for "TIFF-based" RAW files. I have NEF & RAF files, not TIFF files.

So the questions I have; is writing IPTC to RAW possible and if so, where would I find this?

All of the file types you listed are "TIFF-based RAW files".  You need to set your preferences up as illustrated in the image below.  Please note that if your images have XMP sidecar files, PM will continue to update them.  You can delete them, but you may want to wait until you've made one more Metadata modification to them before you do so.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline dredlew

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 08:12:33 AM »
Yeah, that's basically what I tried but that did not work for me. It still creates an XMP as soon as I assign a keyword to the image. Once I delete the XMP, the keyword is gone too. Here is a screen recording of it as well.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 08:25:34 AM »
Thank you for the screen recording.  It was very helpful.  I will investigate the problem.

-Kirk

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 08:27:19 AM »
Can you tell me if the problem only happens with RAF files or does it also happen to NEF files?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline dredlew

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 10:54:15 AM »
Ah, good call! Turns out, it works as intended for NEF but not for RAF.

Specs
Nikon D800/D750: NEF 14bit RAW lossless compressed
Fuji X-Pro2:           RAF 14bit RAW uncompressed (the OS won't read it if compressed)

Test Files
NEF Download
RAF Download

Thanks for investigating!

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 11:27:30 AM »
OK, that explains it.  We don't currently support embedding XMP on RAF files because some software out there (I can't remember which one) chokes on RAF files that have embedded XMP.

-Kirk

Offline dredlew

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2019, 07:13:16 AM »
Not sure I'm following the reasoning here:
  • "Some software out there" can't read RAF files. How is that a PM concern? That would be an issue that they have to fix (given PM follows proper standards).
  • Does that other software does not reimburse you for lost license revenue? I, and possibly others, won't be buying PM if it does not work as intended. Writing IPTC data to the file is the one thing I need PM to do, otherwise it's useless for me.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2019, 08:33:22 PM »
Not sure I'm following the reasoning here:

"Some software out there" can't read RAF files. How is that a PM concern? That would be an issue that they have to fix (given PM follows proper standards).

Because users of that other software claim that we've damaged their files.  They can't use software XYZ because PM has damaged their files.  We've been through this before and the solution at the time was to remove the ability for RAF files to contain embedded metadata.

RAW files are not fully documented by any of the camera manufacturers.  They may follow the TIFF pattern, but there's lots of proprietary data in there that we can't move around.  So we relocate the TIFF table to the end of the file and add our metadata.  Programs that read the offsets from the file in the TIFF standard tend to work well with this scheme, those that assume that the TIFF table starts at a particular offset do not.  We can't force those software developers to obey the TIFF standard.  It's in their best interests if they do, but ultimately that's up to them.  What they tell their users may not be fair to us, but there isn't much we can do about it.

Does that other software does not reimburse you for lost license revenue? I, and possibly others, won't be buying PM if it does not work as intended. Writing IPTC data to the file is the one thing I need PM to do, otherwise it's useless for me.

We could put it back in a sort of hidden way that you would have to opt-into.  I will think on this and discuss it with the rest of the team.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Write IPTC data to RAW file
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 01:00:53 AM »
Why not make it a preference for metadata (IPTC), add a warning with and and everyone should be happy 😊
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