Author Topic: Luminar Files  (Read 1315 times)

Offline mklass

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Luminar Files
« on: May 07, 2019, 05:45:23 AM »
IN PM (both V6 and Plus) Luminar sidecar files show up as a file folder, rather than a file. Why is this? Can it be changed so they appear just like any sidecar file?

In Mac Finder, they do appear just like a file.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 07:22:53 AM »
Hi Mik,

I guess that they are really folders, not files. Just like that applications are really folders, but shown as single item.

I think that in order for PM to interpret the thing as sidecar “file”, more info is needed. Can you share such an object as zip file? Perhaps then it can be determined how to identify those things as really being sidecar files.
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Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 04:51:04 PM »
Attached is a Luminar limner file save when editing a new.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 11:34:09 PM »
Hi Mick, thanks! I had a look and it indeed is simply a folder with some files in it. The folder content is specially structured so Mac OS displays it as a single item, not a folder.

What's even better: there's a preview (albeit only 1200x1500) in the folder too: Contents/Thumbnail. Perhaps you can instruct Luminar to write larger (preferably full size) previews?

@Kirk, with this information, I think it should be doable to treat the luminar folders as sidecar files? And perhaps even use it's preview for display purposes? (so the user gets to see the results of his/her edits)
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Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 03:10:09 AM »
Thanks, Hayo. This reminds me, sort of, of the old Capture NX and NX2 that stored the original image, edits and a preview backing the NEF after editing. Very efficient. PM displays those just fine.

Anyway, I would like to see the Luminar file problem solved in PM. I really like it as an editor, but managing the files in PM, especially not having them handled as an image file in PM, is making that difficult.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 05:13:53 AM »
Ah, right, I misunderstood a little: the .lmnr file is all that's left once you edit with luminar. It actually contains the original .nef (in the resources directory) as well as the luminar edits and a small thumbnail. So in order for it to work for you in PM, they can't simply interpret the .lmnr as sidecar to an existing file, they really have to analyse the content. I'm sure this can be done, but it's much less straightforward. Now to find where luminar stores any metadata (updates).

Can you do me a favour and set e.g. the caption to something really obvious and post the lmnr folder zip again? Then I should be able to find out if and where they store this (I'm hoping they actually store it in the .nef as that would be simple and consistent; it already had lots of metadata as well, just need to make sure it's the only source).
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Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 06:36:44 AM »
HAyo,

My workflow when I use Luminar is to open the NEF in Luminar by launching from PM. I do my edits in Luminar, then export a JPG for everyday use. I then save, which Luminar saves as the LMNR file containing the edits, preview, etc.

In Finder, if I click on the LMNR file, it opens Luminar with then edits as last done. I can't do that from PM, because PM only shows the LMNR file as a folder.

I think my allusion to the olde CNX/CNX2 file may have confuse you. Sorry.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2019, 06:54:55 AM »
Hi Mick,

No, I don't think it has. From your last post it still follows that the .lmnr file (folder) is indeed the whole thing. So PM should treat it as such. Including showing metadata and a preview. For the metadata, could you still do as I asked and change/set the caption (in Luminar) and then zip the updated .lmnr and share it here?

Another question: is it possible to tell Luminar to create full size previews instead of the 1200x1500 there now is (for this image)?
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2019, 08:04:54 AM »
I’ll get to that later today.

There is no option to set the preview size in Luminar.

The LMNR file is really like a DNG, at least I terms of function. It would be nice if PM treated it similarly.

One of the benefits of PM is that it is editor neutral. But to retain that advantage it needs to figure out how to manage those editor specific files associated with a specific image. Otherwise file management becomes a mess. Luminar, LR, OnOne, capture NX-D, even PS all use some kind of file other than the raw file or jpg/tiff to retain the non-destructive function. Being able to link those and maintain that relationship is important.

Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2019, 01:18:52 PM »
Well, Hayo, I have never edited the EXIF/IPTC in Luminar, and now I know why: Luminar does not have that capability.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2019, 11:47:57 PM »
Hi Mick,

Well, Hayo, I have never edited the EXIF/IPTC in Luminar, and now I know why: Luminar does not have that capability.

OK, that explains a lot. And it's a great omission from their part (though, with PM support, we can live without it quite well). If Luminar would enable the generation of, high quality, full-sized previews, they would actually offer a great editing solution! They would certainly be a good competitor for a PM + Adobe/DNG workflow (ON1 isn't because of their incompatible workflow/way of organizing files&edits).

@Kirk: so I think – ideally – PM should de the following to support the .lmnr container fully:
  • Treat the .lmnr folder as a single unit
  • Read/update metadata from the file found in the Resources directory inside the container
  • Use the Thumbnail file as representation unless there is an accompanying JPG file (see also next point)
  • Allow it to pair with a JPG file (see previous point)

Does this sound reasonable? And would it be something that could be addressed the coming few months?
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2019, 01:19:11 AM »
Hayo,

Considering the newest version of Luminar adding (very rudimentary) cataloging capabilities it seems they would not do much to assist Camera Bits.

However, after if releasing the new version with cataloging, they released another version that is just an editor for those that did not want Luminar to do cataloging.

Anything the PM can do to integrate 3rd party editors and their proprietary auxiliary files would be most welcome..

Offline Perttis

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2019, 05:19:28 AM »
Skylum has product called Flex , almost same as Luminar3 but meant to be plugin or standalone app without any catalogin.
I think that would be right tool for you.
 

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2019, 07:32:12 AM »
Hayo,

Well, Hayo, I have never edited the EXIF/IPTC in Luminar, and now I know why: Luminar does not have that capability.

OK, that explains a lot. And it's a great omission from their part (though, with PM support, we can live without it quite well). If Luminar would enable the generation of, high quality, full-sized previews, they would actually offer a great editing solution! They would certainly be a good competitor for a PM + Adobe/DNG workflow (ON1 isn't because of their incompatible workflow/way of organizing files&edits).

@Kirk: so I think – ideally – PM should de the following to support the .lmnr container fully:
  • Treat the .lmnr folder as a single unit
  • Read/update metadata from the file found in the Resources directory inside the container
  • Use the Thumbnail file as representation unless there is an accompanying JPG file (see also next point)
  • Allow it to pair with a JPG file (see previous point)

Does this sound reasonable? And would it be something that could be addressed the coming few months?

I have made our directory scanning ignore .lmnr directories so that they no longer show up in the Favorites or Navigator.
As for supporting the package for the purposes of adding metadata and showing the adjusted image in the next few months, I cannot say.  I don't know how many users of PM also use Luminar.  At this point it is just one person (Mick) that I know of.  If we get a great number of requests for support, we'll raise its priority.

PM does not currently have the concept of a 'photo' that is a directory.  I have not thought it through what would need to be changed to support such a thing, but it likely won't be trivial.

-Kirk

Offline mklass

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Re: Luminar Files
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2019, 08:45:23 AM »
Skylum has product called Flex , almost same as Luminar3 but meant to be plugin or standalone app without any catalogin.
I think that would be right tool for you.
Yes, that is what I am using now. I have reverted to Luminar 2018 after I tried Luminar 3 (the cataloging version).