Author Topic: Let's compare Fuji workflows with fellow users of PM/FRV/(RAW Developer)  (Read 2072 times)

Offline pierre

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Hello,

My current platform is Mac OS based and over the years I have used various software to manage my library, develop raw files and edit developed images further.

In the past I used Adobe software while I am less inclined to do so lately.

Moving a library from one piece of software to another is fairly time consuming effort and typically involves loosing something along the way which is why I would prefer to keep concerns separate and use different software for different purposes, basically adopt more of a folder centric view of a library.

Ideally it should be possible to replace workflow elements without having to start over while in practice this may not be possible.

The intent of this post is to allow me to compare workflow notes with fellow users of Photo Mechanic, FastRawViewer and consider various options:

- Capture One Pro Fuji (Developer)
- Iridient Developer (Developer)
- Luminar Flex (Developer)
- Affinity Photo (Photoshop replacement)

How I personally work:
I use PM to ingest, tag images with metadata and move/copy images around based on specific folder structure needs.
I use FRV to critically inspect raw files and typically do a first culling pass from my local library where images get moved into _Selected/_Rejected folders.

I currently have licences for PM6, FRV and Iridient Developer.

Although Iridient Developer has excellent conversions is it particularly slow to operate with poor UX design.
I am not knocking the work of Iridient Developer developers but as someone who writes software for a living it somewhat get's under my skin.
I am also concerned that the UI has not evolved over the years and wonder just how long will the software be supported.

This is what got me looking into C1P, Luminar and Affinity Photo. These are not on par and do not entirely serve the same purpose but they are options.
If PM was able to implement a plugin architecture allowing for Luminary's Flex to be added to the mix it would be a very interesting combination.
Affinity Photo could then be used for further refinement which I believe could make for a wining combination.
I suspect this is unlikely to happen which is why I am looking into C1P right now.

I'm curious how others use PM with C1P Sessions.
What are you favourite folder structures and do you start with PM then C1P or the other way around.

I'm looking forward to learning what others do.

Thank you for reading this far,
Pierre

Offline Luiz Muzzi

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    • Luiz Muzzi Photography
Hi,
Personally, I have been using Canon's program (Digital Photo Professional), PM and Lightroom for several years.
I use Canon's program to convert files from raw to jpeg. PM to ingest, color-tag, rate, apply metadata like keywords, location and city, and to delete files. Lightroom to edit photos that are not good but not totally bad. Perhaps I will switch from Lightroom to C1 in the near future.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
- Luiz Muzzi
 

Offline pierre

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Here are further details of what I have come up with regards to integrating C1P with PM and FRV...

1) Ingest from card
- Job: BLAH
- Metadata "Event" attribute: {jobname}
- Destination: {iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}

At this point images are at the root of the destination folder.

2) Create new C1P Session under the destination
- This part is a pain for now. I intend to make an enhancement request with Phase One asking for nameless session support...
- If they ignore this request I will just automate it myself.
- For now I am moving the files and folders myself...
- Basic idea:

*.jpg
*.raf
*.xmp
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Session.cosessiondb
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Capture
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Output
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Selects
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Trash

At this point images at the folder root have not been evaluated...

3) Culling using combination of FRV and PM
- I find it easier to initially get rid of the crap so I set FRV to reject into Trash from above. This moves the combined files into the folder.
- I then go after the best shots. I set FRV to select into Selects from above. This also moves the combined files into the folder.

{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Session.cosessiondb
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Capture/*.jpg, *.raf, *.xmp
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Output
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Selects/*.jpg, *.raf, *.xmp
{iptcyear4}/{iptcyear4}{iptcmonth0}{iptcday0} {jobname}/Trash/*.jpg, *.raf, *.xmp

Once no further images are left at the folder root I know they all have been evaluated...
I am fully aware I could use stars or colors to do this in PM/FRV/C1P as they all support it to various degree.
The issue is how do you make all the different software happy since they are not interoperable.
For example if you use both Adobe and C1P you have to make a decision which to adopt.
Instead I just make 3 piles: Good(Selects), Undecided(Capture), Rejects (Trash)

4) Further tagging is only done on the select using PM
- I find there is no point in tagging images that do not make the cut
- I also find that my opinion changes as time goes by so I usually wait to use stars or colors
- This is where I do my critical thinking about the images in Selects
- At this point I may choose to move some images back and forth between Captures/Selects
- Since I shoot Fuji the jpg are usually pretty good to begin with and I may share them with people to give them something to look at while I do the real interpretation.

5) Develop
- I used to develop everything, now I try to be more pragmatic. It really depends on the audience.
- If I can get away with just cropping a JPG I may do that.
- Once I'm ready to devel I use some editor to go from RAW to TIFF.
- I keep TIFF as an intermediate until I know where the output is going.
- This allows me to take things further into something like Affinity Photo for example.

I can't say this is an awesome workflow because it seems like every editor wants to be a DAM/MAM and this conflicts with the premise of single purpose tooling which I like.
I wish C1P could just be used to edit but I am forced to use a session which impart folder structure conventions I don't like.
I wish I could use Luminar Flex without the plugin requirement. Since I don't want to use Adobe products any more I am forced to use Apple Photos which imports the images into some other folders taking up more disk space.
I wish PM had a plugin interface which Luminar Flex could use this way I would probably start with it instead of C1P.
I believe I will get Affinity Photo since its the closest I have ever found to being a Photoshop replacement and I am comfortable in that world.

The only good thing I can say about this proposed workflow is it makes it easier to switch out elements without having invested too much work in things that won't transfer.

I've grown really fond of PM/FRV and find those very complimentary and would not want to replace either one for the other.

Please comment and share your experience so that all may benefit.

Thank you,
Pierre
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 02:57:27 PM by pierre »

Offline pierre

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Hello again,

I see there have been many (~178) views while only one person has been kind enough to share with everyone.
I really hope others can jump in here to expand the conversation as I feel like I am talking to myself ;o)

I will keep adding notes in the hopes that others join the monolog...

I find this workflow very compelling:

PM -> FVR -> Iridient Developer -> Affinity Photo

- It supports whatever folder structure you're likely going to need
- It allows PM to manage the metadata using colours or stars
- Iridient Developer could be exchanged for Iridient X-Transformer to go even faster
- Affinity Photo is very interoperable with Adobe PSD files

I feel this workflow provides excellent output as well:

PM -> FVR -> C1P Fuji -> Affinity Photo

- It's a little more oriented towards pros or advanced hobbyist aa thew selection tools and layers are outstanding
- It adds real Fuji Film Simulation support as Fuji is working with Phase One developers on it as opposed to people attempting top come close using presets like above with Iridient Developer
- C1P is also very interoperable with Adobe PSD files as well as others
- The down side of this workflow is each software is fighting for metadata supremacy although this can be worked around to various degrees
- The really annoying part of this is having to conform to C1P catalog/session folder structures

Thank you,
Pierre

Offline myotis

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I use:

PM to ingest, rename files and carry out initial edit to cull out obvious bad images, then,

Fast Raw Viewer (opened from PM) for a technical evaluation of the images, and further culling then,

PM again to keyword, rate etc., and more detailed image assessment, then send "copies" of raw files to...

Capture One session, for raw processing and initial editing and further culling, images that don't make the grade are deleted in C1, others are fully edited in C1, or round tripped to...

Photoshop for important images, then

Capture One again to prepare output file (put into C1 session output folder), and final editing, colour grading etc, and back to..

PM for final captioning and keywording, depending where the file is going.

Neofinder to catalogue the original raw files and the C1 sessions.

Seems very convoluted when written down, but each program offers something that others don't.  It's a bit iterative and not all steps are needed with every image, but master control of metadata is Photo Mechanic, and I make good use of templates, autocorrect and code replacement in PM.

Cheers,

Graham


Offline pierre

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Hello Graham,

Thank you so much for sharing your high level workflow.

Would you be able to further describe the following:

- Folder structures (some of this will be centric to C1 requriements)?
- In FRV do you setup _Selects/_Rejects or remap those to C1 folders?
- In C1 do you use sessions?
- If YES is it one disposable session for everything or to you manage individual sessions?
- What settings do you use in C1 and PM to help them better integrate?

I agree with you that each piece of software has something unique.
I too tend to use PM as master control of metadata and templates.

Looking forward to your reply,
Pierre

Offline myotis

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Would you be able to further describe the following:


- Folder structures (some of this will be centric to C1 requriements)?

Raws just go into year - month - day folders , with the files renamed with my initials_yearmonthday_last three numbers of camera body serial number and original file id number. I also add some descriptive text to the folder names so at the system level I know what each folder contains.

- In FRV do you setup _Selects/_Rejects or remap those to C1 folders?

I don't really have any interaction between FRV and C1, other than getting C1 to load any metadata chnages made in FRV (but nearly all metadata changes are made in PM)

- In C1 do you use sessions?
I only use sessions. I did say that :-)

- If YES is it one disposable session for everything or to you manage individual sessions?

Session folder structure based on year and month, and then project based named sessions within the month folders.  i also have some longer term projects that live in their own sessions. I use Neofinder to search across sessions

- What settings do you use in C1 and PM to help them better integrate?

I use the settings that PM suggest for integrating with Capture One (its years since I set this up, and I can't remember what they are), But I have C1 set to just "load" metadata, and make all changes PM. Actually, that isn't true, I do make some changes in C1 that only relate to file management in C1 and I don't want to be added to the file metadata.

Cheers,

Graham