Author Topic: Build3663: Filter UI improvement  (Read 445 times)

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« on: September 07, 2019, 04:10:12 AM »
I played a bit with the new filter UI from build 3663 and I quite like it! Couple suggestions to make it (imo) even better:

1. Don't start with no filter clauses but start with a default one (i.e. the one after you press new or clear).
2. Remember the last filters in effect when PM is reopened
3. Allow for snapshots (but I guess that one is already on your list ;))
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 08:20:39 AM »
Hayo,

I played a bit with the new filter UI from build 3663 and I quite like it! Couple suggestions to make it (imo) even better:

1. Don't start with no filter clauses but start with a default one (i.e. the one after you press new or clear).

Some action has to create the Filter results tab.  Either restoring on startup (your #2) or clicking on something.  Having a Filter tab spontaneously appear when the user does not yet have any images in their default catalog sounds potentially new-user confusion-inducing.

2. Remember the last filters in effect when PM is reopened
3. Allow for snapshots (but I guess that one is already on your list ;))

Both are planned.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 03:17:42 AM »
I played a bit with the new filter UI from build 3663 and I quite like it! Couple suggestions to make it (imo) even better:

1. Don't start with no filter clauses but start with a default one (i.e. the one after you press new or clear).

Some action has to create the Filter results tab.  Either restoring on startup (your #2) or clicking on something.  Having a Filter tab spontaneously appear when the user does not yet have any images in their default catalog sounds potentially new-user confusion-inducing.

Ah, I think I understand what you are saying now. For me it felt weird to not see anything at first since I was used to the original behaviour. But I think I can see your point, which anyway becomes moot after the first time you use the filter if #2 is implemented.

The only thing that then would still feel strange is that upon first opening the filter tab, there are no filters at all, but after that you will never be able to get that situation ever again; while the clear button removes al filter clauses, it also immediately creates a new one (i.e. as if you pressed the new button).

2. Remember the last filters in effect when PM is reopened
3. Allow for snapshots (but I guess that one is already on your list ;))

Both are planned.

I already thought you had :)
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 12:23:33 PM »
Hayo,

I played a bit with the new filter UI from build 3663 and I quite like it! Couple suggestions to make it (imo) even better:

1. Don't start with no filter clauses but start with a default one (i.e. the one after you press new or clear).

Some action has to create the Filter results tab.  Either restoring on startup (your #2) or clicking on something.  Having a Filter tab spontaneously appear when the user does not yet have any images in their default catalog sounds potentially new-user confusion-inducing.

Ah, I think I understand what you are saying now. For me it felt weird to not see anything at first since I was used to the original behaviour. But I think I can see your point, which anyway becomes moot after the first time you use the filter if #2 is implemented.

The only thing that then would still feel strange is that upon first opening the filter tab, there are no filters at all, but after that you will never be able to get that situation ever again; while the clear button removes al filter clauses, it also immediately creates a new one (i.e. as if you pressed the new button).

I suppose if everyone thinks that it would be a better experience to have an extra button to add the first Filter after a New then it could be done that way.  It would be an extra step that some may find annoying.  But it would then be the same experience when initially using it vs. starting over after having done some filtering.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 10:44:42 PM »
The only thing that then would still feel strange is that upon first opening the filter tab, there are no filters at all, but after that you will never be able to get that situation ever again; while the clear button removes al filter clauses, it also immediately creates a new one (i.e. as if you pressed the new button).

I suppose if everyone thinks that it would be a better experience to have an extra button to add the first Filter after a New then it could be done that way.  It would be an extra step that some may find annoying.  But it would then be the same experience when initially using it vs. starting over after having done some filtering.

No, I don't think adding another button (click) would be an improvement.  Going over this again I actually think it is still the best solution to have the user start (for the very first time), not with a completely empty filter, but with the initial filter (as if the user pressed new). Basically how it was before. If for whatever reason that is not workable in the new setup, leave it as is; the initial empty state will never be reached again afterwards, so it is a one time only “inconvenience”.
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Soizic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2019, 11:47:21 PM »
NEW and CLEAR are fine, I suggest another button "RETURN TO PRECEDENT" really useful if you make a mistake.

 build 3663 (a6e18bc), Mojave
Soizic (France)
Mojave 10.14.6  mabookpro and miniMac
PM+ à jour

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 07:07:59 AM »
Hayo,

The only thing that then would still feel strange is that upon first opening the filter tab, there are no filters at all, but after that you will never be able to get that situation ever again; while the clear button removes al filter clauses, it also immediately creates a new one (i.e. as if you pressed the new button).

I suppose if everyone thinks that it would be a better experience to have an extra button to add the first Filter after a New then it could be done that way.  It would be an extra step that some may find annoying.  But it would then be the same experience when initially using it vs. starting over after having done some filtering.

No, I don't think adding another button (click) would be an improvement.  Going over this again I actually think it is still the best solution to have the user start (for the very first time), not with a completely empty filter, but with the initial filter (as if the user pressed new). Basically how it was before. If for whatever reason that is not workable in the new setup, leave it as is; the initial empty state will never be reached again afterwards, so it is a one time only “inconvenience”.

OK, but what action causes the Filter tab to be created and all images to be shown?

This is one of the problems that need solving.  One of the most common questions asked by new users is: "How do I see all of the images in my catalog?"

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2019, 09:28:30 AM »
OK, but what action causes the Filter tab to be created and all images to be shown?

This is one of the problems that need solving.  One of the most common questions asked by new users is: "How do I see all of the images in my catalog?"

I don't understand your question; the Filter Tab is there when you select the Catalog mode. If you then click on it (or had it selected last time), it now starts without any filter clause/category, you have to press “New” first. This feels a bit strange (and wasn't how it worked before). So can't you just populate it as if the “New” button was pressed when you show the Filter tab and there was no previous filter? Isn't that a workable trigger? You need to show something, so it might as well be a “New” filter.

But as I said, once you have “remember last filter”, this becomes a bit of a non-issue since then only the very first time will you not have any filter clauses present.
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2019, 10:58:40 AM »
Hayo,

OK, but what action causes the Filter tab to be created and all images to be shown?

This is one of the problems that need solving.  One of the most common questions asked by new users is: "How do I see all of the images in my catalog?"

I don't understand your question; the Filter Tab is there when you select the Catalog mode. If you then click on it (or had it selected last time), it now starts without any filter clause/category, you have to press “New” first. This feels a bit strange (and wasn't how it worked before). So can't you just populate it as if the “New” button was pressed when you show the Filter tab and there was no previous filter? Isn't that a workable trigger? You need to show something, so it might as well be a “New” filter.

But as I said, once you have “remember last filter”, this becomes a bit of a non-issue since then only the very first time will you not have any filter clauses present.

I think we're confusing things by not defining terms better.  When I say "Filter tab", I'm talking about a Contact Sheet tab with the name "Filter" on it.  Something has to trigger that to happen and show "all" images.  I don't think a "Filter tab" should just spontaneously be created without any user interaction unless the Filter tab is created from restoring the last session.

Does that make sense?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2019, 11:56:03 AM »
Hi Kirk,

I think we're confusing things by not defining terms better.  When I say "Filter tab", I'm talking about a Contact Sheet tab with the name "Filter" on it.  Something has to trigger that to happen and show "all" images.  I don't think a "Filter tab" should just spontaneously be created without any user interaction unless the Filter tab is created from restoring the last session.

Does that make sense?

Right, that makes sense! Where I was talking about the filter tab in the catalog (left) pane, you were talking about the contact sheet… Yes, I now see I need to elaborate a lot on what would be nice (default) behaviour here…

Let's first separate both issues since I think the filter tab in the catalog (left) pane has only one issue: that it is empty when you start initially. Instead I think it should be showing the default (currently the rating) filter category, just as when you pressed new. Agree?

Now on to actually showing the filter results in a contact sheet. This is indeed tricky since, as you rightly say, it would be against what you'd expect if it where to show a filter contact sheet automatically when you e.g. click the left pane fillter tab or switch to catalog mode (in filter mode). So we'll need a trigger for actually executing the query and showing the result in a contact sheet.

Playing with things some more I actually noticed that the Clear button not only clears the query (like New) but also opens a contact sheet with the result (why doesn't new do that?). So here's a trigger, but not one we can use when you have implemented remembering the last filter; for that you'd also want a trigger that leaves the filter query completely intact.
It took me a while to see the difference between New and Clear; New really starts a new filter with the default first clause and  clear leaves the filter clauses intact but simply removes any selected parts. Both obviously make sense. So basically you have what we need here. Except that I think “New” should also show the contact sheet. I guess that's easy to implement.

That clarified, I think all we need is a way to “execute” the initial query (be it the starting query or the remembered query from last session – once you have implemented that). Apart from adding another button, I don't see a logical way of creating this trigger from some other action. Not ideal, but we really need to be able to do this.

Extending this thought (i.e., a button to open the query in a filter contact sheet), are you ever planning on allowing multiple contact sheets with (different) filters? If so, then that button could also be used for that. Will add a lot of complexity to PLM though since you then (also) have to remember which filter contact sheet is showing which filter and switch filter settings when switching contact sheets. I can definitely see a use for this though (though, if you implement smart collections this would be much less important/unnecessary).

Hope what I say makes sense ;)
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2019, 12:41:40 PM »
Hayo,

I think we're confusing things by not defining terms better.  When I say "Filter tab", I'm talking about a Contact Sheet tab with the name "Filter" on it.  Something has to trigger that to happen and show "all" images.  I don't think a "Filter tab" should just spontaneously be created without any user interaction unless the Filter tab is created from restoring the last session.

Does that make sense?

Right, that makes sense! Where I was talking about the filter tab in the catalog (left) pane, you were talking about the contact sheet… Yes, I now see I need to elaborate a lot on what would be nice (default) behaviour here…

Let's first separate both issues since I think the filter tab in the catalog (left) pane has only one issue: that it is empty when you start initially. Instead I think it should be showing the default (currently the rating) filter category, just as when you pressed new. Agree?

No.  If there is a Filter stage in the Organizer's Filter tab and it has no selection then there should be a Filter contact sheet tab showing all images.  Known issue: you can close the Filter contact sheet tab and the Filter stack will still exist but their selections will be removed.  To be truly orthogonal, those filters should be removed completely.  "New" would be clicked again to start a new Filter session.

Now on to actually showing the filter results in a contact sheet. This is indeed tricky since, as you rightly say, it would be against what you'd expect if it where to show a filter contact sheet automatically when you e.g. click the left pane fillter tab or switch to catalog mode (in filter mode). So we'll need a trigger for actually executing the query and showing the result in a contact sheet.

Playing with things some more I actually noticed that the Clear button not only clears the query (like New) but also opens a contact sheet with the result (why doesn't new do that?). So here's a trigger, but not one we can use when you have implemented remembering the last filter; for that you'd also want a trigger that leaves the filter query completely intact.

If there are Filter stages in the Filter stack (let's call the area where the Filter stages appear the "Filter stack") and you press "Clear", all results are displayed (the same would happen if you individually deselected the terms from each Filter stage in the Filter stack.

"New" does more than clearing the query (the selections) like "Clear" does.  It completely starts the Filter session over and creates the default Filter stage (currently "Rating") and produces a Filter contact sheet tab (if none existed before) showing all images. 

It took me a while to see the difference between New and Clear; New really starts a new filter with the default first clause and  clear leaves the filter clauses intact but simply removes any selected parts. Both obviously make sense. So basically you have what we need here. Except that I think “New” should also show the contact sheet. I guess that's easy to implement.

"New" already creates a new Filter contact sheet tab with "all" images shown in it, or reuses the existing Filter contact sheet tab, forcing it to show all images.

That clarified, I think all we need is a way to “execute” the initial query (be it the starting query or the remembered query from last session – once you have implemented that). Apart from adding another button, I don't see a logical way of creating this trigger from some other action. Not ideal, but we really need to be able to do this.

The "New" button does this.  Think of the Filter stack as a document pane.  You initially start with no document and you click "New" to create it.

Extending this thought (i.e., a button to open the query in a filter contact sheet), are you ever planning on allowing multiple contact sheets with (different) filters? If so, then that button could also be used for that. Will add a lot of complexity to PLM though since you then (also) have to remember which filter contact sheet is showing which filter and switch filter settings when switching contact sheets. I can definitely see a use for this though (though, if you implement smart collections this would be much less important/unnecessary).

We used to allow more than one Filter contact sheet tab to exist.  It was found to be more confusing than it was worth.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

  • Uber Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Professional Photographer & Software Developer
    • View Profile
    • Hayo Baan - Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2019, 01:33:39 PM »
I think I follow you now and tend to agree with you approach as well now too (assuming all caveats you mentioned will be fixed).

One remark though: the new button doesn’t open a filter contact sheet for me. I think had it done so, I would have been quicker at understanding the intended workflow...
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 20253
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2019, 02:07:26 PM »
Hayo,

I think I follow you now and tend to agree with you approach as well now too (assuming all caveats you mentioned will be fixed).

Which caveats are left given your understanding of the approach besides restoring the Filter stack and the Filter contact sheet tab when the app is relaunched?

One remark though: the new button doesn’t open a filter contact sheet for me. I think had it done so, I would have been quicker at understanding the intended workflow...

That is indeed a bug.  I was just able to reproduce it.

I will get that fixed.

-Kirk

Offline mklass

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
    • Mick Klass Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2019, 05:06:34 PM »
I are it that Build 3663 is only available to limited users, as the beta * that I have is Build 3635, and that is the latest version I have access to.

Offline mklass

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
    • Mick Klass Photography
Re: Build3663: Filter UI improvement
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2019, 05:13:24 PM »
Never mind, I just found the post about Builds between Betas.