Author Topic: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom  (Read 1311 times)

Offline davidgordon

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Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« on: April 30, 2020, 02:52:03 AM »
I'm 'camera scanning' archive film. Using Photo Mechanic I use Tools -> Adjust Capture Date and Times... to set the date the picture was taken. When I nip over to Lightroom (and read the metadata from file) the reported dates are mixed up. For example, I 'camera scanned' some negatives yesterday. I've used PM to set the date to 25-06-1993 (aka 06-25-1993 if you prefer!).

Lightroom reports the correct (25-06-1993) "Capture Date" and "Capture Time" in the default metadata panel. However in the EXIF section I see "Date Time Original" as 25/06/1993 12:00:00, which may be correct but "Date Time Digitised" has the same date/time while "Date Time" is 29/04/2020 14:28:21"

Surely "Date Time Digitised" and "Date Time" are mixed up?

I've changed the date and time in the past when using a film scanner. I see in Lightroom those files don't report a "Date Time Digitised", but that may be a red herring.

So my aim is to keep the "Date Time Digitised" the correct scanning date and the other dates and times updated to the date they were taken on film. Am I misusing the PM tools or is it all Lightroom's fault!?

Thanks!

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2020, 09:15:32 AM »
David,

I'm 'camera scanning' archive film. Using Photo Mechanic I use Tools -> Adjust Capture Date and Times... to set the date the picture was taken. When I nip over to Lightroom (and read the metadata from file) the reported dates are mixed up. For example, I 'camera scanned' some negatives yesterday. I've used PM to set the date to 25-06-1993 (aka 06-25-1993 if you prefer!).

Lightroom reports the correct (25-06-1993) "Capture Date" and "Capture Time" in the default metadata panel. However in the EXIF section I see "Date Time Original" as 25/06/1993 12:00:00, which may be correct but "Date Time Digitised" has the same date/time while "Date Time" is 29/04/2020 14:28:21"

Surely "Date Time Digitised" and "Date Time" are mixed up?

I've changed the date and time in the past when using a film scanner. I see in Lightroom those files don't report a "Date Time Digitised", but that may be a red herring.

So my aim is to keep the "Date Time Digitised" the correct scanning date and the other dates and times updated to the date they were taken on film. Am I misusing the PM tools or is it all Lightroom's fault!?

Can you share a sample file with me, please?  If it's not too large, you could post it here.  Otherwise, send me a personal message with a link to the example image (and any XMP sidecar files that go with it.)

Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your file(s).

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline davidgordon

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 10:23:02 AM »
Can you share a sample file with me, please?

Yes, I'll send one in a bit. Meanwhile John Beardsworth's 'Capture Time To EXIF' is a plugin for Lightroom which does the same as PM's Adjust Capture Date and Times... . I don't need that plugin as I have PM but I noticed the same mixed dates on his before and after examples at the Photographer's Toolbox https://www.photographers-toolbox.com/products/jbeardsworth/jbcapturetimetoexif/index.php There John has scanned some images on 22/02/2020. He's used his plugin and updated the metadata to reflect the date the picture was actually shot as 20/04/1990. But he has the same result, "Date Time Digitised" is also in 1990 while Date Time remains in 2020.

So a different method but the same result.

Offline davidgordon

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2020, 12:22:57 AM »
I've sent a PM with a link to a file.

Meanwhile it may be of help to know which date and time EXIF fields PM is modifying when using 'Adjust Capture Date and Times'. There seems to be a slightly confusing set.

According to my Lightroom pals there are three EXIF fields

1 - Date Time Original: when the shutter was pressed. (LR calls this Capture Date.)
2 - Date Time Digitized: when the photo was converted to digital form. This is when the shutter was pressed for digital cameras or when the image was scanned.
3 - Date Time: when a program last modified the photo or its metadata. (LR displays this but, contrary to the standard, doesn't update it).

I think what I'm looking for is to update only 'Date Time Original' but, because it's is primarily aimed at digital users - PM is also updating 'Date Time Digitized'.

So unless there's a clever way to update some but not all the date/time fields using PM I'm probably going to have to find a solution using EXIFTool for example?

Thanks again!

Offline Bob Russell

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2020, 04:48:33 PM »
Hi David,

  Lightroom is using the XMP metadata section's photoshop:DateCreated for the Date and Time digitized.  Photo Mechanic can adjust this date and time independently from the capture date and time.  For your sample workflow, use Photo Mechanic's Adjust Capture Dates and Time from the Tools menu and set this to the date the film shot was taken  ( June 25, 1993 ).   Now to set the Date and Time digitized for Lightroom, open Photo Mechanic's Metadata (IPTC) Info dialog and set the Time and Date menu to the Date option. Now enter the Date and Time your digital camera took the shot ( April 29, 2020 ).    If you have already imported this file into Lightroom, then select the file in LR and use the Read Metadata from File option in the Metadata menu. Now LR should show the correct dates for your workflow. I have attached a screen shot of Lightroom's Metadata panel set to the EXIF option for an image adjusted in Photo Mechanic 6.  I hope this helps.

--Bob
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 05:57:33 PM by Kirk Baker »

Offline davidgordon

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 04:24:42 AM »
Sorry to come back to this after a while but I can't get the same result.

Here's what I'm doing:

• Use Photo Mechanic's 'Adjust Capture Dates and Time' from the Tools menu and set this to the date the film shot was taken.
• To set the 'Date and Time Digitised' for Lightroom, open Photo Mechanic's Metadata (IPTC) Info dialog and set the Time and Date menu to the Date option. Enter the Date and Time your digital camera took the shot
• If you have already imported this file into Lightroom, select the file in LR and use the 'Read Metadata from File' option in the Metadata menu. LR should now show the correct dates.

Attached are screenshots of what's happening.

1 - Show me changing the date in PH
2 - We can see the date has changed and now setting the capture date
3 - LR's metadata before...
4 - ...and after reading metadata from file showing the dates aren't correct.

Odd behaviour in the 'Metadata (IPTC) Info' dialog, when clicking the 'Apply Metadata Template' the day and month change. So although I'm setting 19-05-2020 it changes to 29-03-2020. Just clicking OK doesn't change the date in the dialog so the result is correct.

Maybe this is one of those problems that's more trouble than its worth. The option is to set all date and time metadata to the same 'film shot' date. But I'm not sure either how to or if I can?

Offline Bob Russell

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 10:46:46 AM »
Hi David,

I am not able to recreate the problem you are having with Lightroom not finding Photo Mechanic's adjusted dates.  I'm using an old RAF file from a Fuji S2.  Can you send a copy of your problem RAF and XMP sidecar files?  I would like to test your files on my Mac. Thank you for your help with this issue.

--Bob

Offline davidgordon

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 09:05:36 AM »
Thanks for the offer, I've sent you a PM.

Offline Bob Russell

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Re: Adjusted Date & Time: PM vs Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 03:59:04 PM »
Hello David,

  Thank you for the sample RAF file. I was able to adjust the dates and times in Photo Mechanic to show the correct results in LR Classic.  I think I see where your problems are coming from.  You do not have the box checked at the bottom left of the Adjust Capture Dates and Times dialog, to update the file's creation date/time. I have attached 3 screen shots to show your sample file first updated in Photo Mechanic's Adjust Capture Dates and Times from the Tools menu. Then updated from the Metadata (IPTC) Info dialogs Date section and then the file opened in LR Classic.  I hope this works in your copy of Lightroom.

--Bob