Author Topic: Questions from a newbie  (Read 2618 times)

Offline fourdogslong

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Questions from a newbie
« on: May 08, 2020, 08:16:41 AM »
Hi, I'm new to Photo Mechanic, using the trial right now.
I use Capture One 20 for my RAW developing and rely on folders for my organization. I'm not a pro, photo is a hobby to me so most of my photos are either from everyday life or from the studio which I setup every now and then on special occasions like my daughter's birthdays, stuff like that.

I searched through the manual, didn't read the whole thing I admit because that's a lot to take in but I searched and couldn't find answers to my questions so here we go.


On the metadata window, there's a little map icon that we can activate but I see no mention anywhere about what this does, anybody can tell me? (I'm attaching a screenshot as reference)

I'm putting metadata in my pictures, I have over 20 000 to do so I'd like to make sure I got the most efficient workflow. I want to make sure I put the desired info in the right places so that they are as future proof as possible and readable in other software including Capture One.
The main info I want is Event name (ex: Matt's birthday), Description (ex: That photo was shot before we had cake), Person shown in the image (ex: Matt, John, Jack), Keyword (ex: Anniversary, Party, Family), Location (ex: house, city, state, country) and GPS coordinates.

I did a test where in every field of Photo Mechanic I copied the field's title, for example: In "Image Content / Description/Caption:" I entered: Description/Caption, I did that for every field. Then I opened that image in Capture One to see what was readable or not. There's a lot missing, like Persons shown and Event for example which I find disappointing.
How do you guys deal with that, what info do you put where? I already started but I want to make sure I'm doing this right as I discovered that Even name doesn't transfer to Capture One, so where do I put that info? I found the way photo mechanic has a Event name field separate from the Description.
Also, when you have thousands of images to do, how do you go about it, PM6 seems built do to exactly that, I just don't know all the tricks to do it fast.


That leads me to User Custom Variables, where do I specify what I want that to be? How do you use that feature?
Lastly, how do I search inside a folder only? Let's say I want to search "Matt" in my 2019 folder, not on the whole computer, how do I do that?

Any guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Links to read, personal tips and tricks, anything that can help.
Thank you!

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2020, 08:58:13 AM »
On the metadata window, there's a little map icon that we can activate but I see no mention anywhere about what this does, anybody can tell me? (I'm attaching a screenshot as reference)

It does "Reverse Geocoding".  If your images have GPS coordinates in them then the GPS data can be used to find the location and automatically fill in the location data for you.

I'm putting metadata in my pictures, I have over 20 000 to do so I'd like to make sure I got the most efficient workflow. I want to make sure I put the desired info in the right places so that they are as future proof as possible and readable in other software including Capture One.
The main info I want is Event name (ex: Matt's birthday), Description (ex: That photo was shot before we had cake), Person shown in the image (ex: Matt, John, Jack), Keyword (ex: Anniversary, Party, Family), Location (ex: house, city, state, country) and GPS coordinates.

I did a test where in every field of Photo Mechanic I copied the field's title, for example: In "Image Content / Description/Caption:" I entered: Description/Caption, I did that for every field. Then I opened that image in Capture One to see what was readable or not. There's a lot missing, like Persons shown and Event for example which I find disappointing.

Does Capture One support those fields?

How do you guys deal with that, what info do you put where? I already started but I want to make sure I'm doing this right as I discovered that Even name doesn't transfer to Capture One, so where do I put that info? I found the way photo mechanic has a Event name field separate from the Description.

We adhere to the IPTC organization's standards.  Most of the metadata goes into standard XMP namespaces.  Where some fields have been removed by the IPTC organization, we have created our own namespace for storing them (example "Edit Status" is written to our namespace).

Also, when you have thousands of images to do, how do you go about it, PM6 seems built do to exactly that, I just don't know all the tricks to do it fast.

To add metadata in bulk, you should use the "Metadata (IPTC) Template..." command on the Image menu.  All of the fields with the checkbox to the left of the field will be applied.  I suggest also looking into the usage of Photo Mechanic's Image Variables and perhaps Code Replacement.

https://docs.camerabits.com/support/solutions/articles/48000358438-list-of-photo-mechanic-variables

That leads me to User Custom Variables, where do I specify what I want that to be? How do you use that feature?

You fill in the "User / Client Variables" dialog with your information and your client's information.  I suggest using the snapshot buttons (the ones with the lightning bolt on them) to make switching between sets of settings quick and easy.  Then once filled in, you use the appropriate {variable} in your Metadata Template to auto-fill in that information when the template is applied.

Lastly, how do I search inside a folder only? Let's say I want to search "Matt" in my 2019 folder, not on the whole computer, how do I do that?

Open up the "2019" folder and use the "Find..." command on the Edit menu.  Enter "Matt" (without the quotes unless you really want to search for quotes too).  Then click the "All" button below the list of fields to set them all on.  Make sure the "Metadata" checkbox is checked too, and if you want to find in the filenames themselves, also set the "Filenames" checkbox.  Then click the "Find" button.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline fourdogslong

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2020, 09:16:53 AM »
Thank you Kirk!

I did some more reading on the IPTC website and now understand that there are Core IPTC and Extension IPTC, I believe Capture One does not support Extension.
So I'm wondering, where do I put info like Persons Shown or Event's name in the Core IPTC so that I see that info in Capture One.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2020, 09:38:03 AM »
Thank you Kirk!

I did some more reading on the IPTC website and now understand that there are Core IPTC and Extension IPTC, I believe Capture One does not support Extension.
So I'm wondering, where do I put info like Persons Shown or Event's name in the Core IPTC so that I see that info in Capture One.

I suggest trying the opposite of what you did earlier.  Enter the name of all C1 fields into the fields themselves and then open up the image in Photo Mechanic 6 and see what you get.

-Kirk

Offline fourdogslong

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2020, 11:43:00 AM »
That's a good idea, I'm trying that.

I'm starting to see some strange behaviour and it's hard to tell whether it's PM or C1's problem. The issue I'm seeing is that when I clear all Metadata inside PM to start fresh, the metadata shown inside C1 does't get cleared even though I refresh it using the load metadata function inside C1.
If instead of clearing the Metadata inside PM I write new values in the fields that were used and refresh C1, I see the change. So editing metadata is ok but clearing it doesn't work.

Any clue?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2020, 11:52:18 AM »
That's a good idea, I'm trying that.

I'm starting to see some strange behaviour and it's hard to tell whether it's PM or C1's problem. The issue I'm seeing is that when I clear all Metadata inside PM to start fresh, the metadata shown inside C1 does't get cleared even though I refresh it using the load metadata function inside C1.
If instead of clearing the Metadata inside PM I write new values in the fields that were used and refresh C1, I see the change. So editing metadata is ok but clearing it doesn't work.

Any clue?

If you're willing to share an image, I can investigate whether the metadata is cleared (you can check for yourself in PM by clicking the 'i' button that appears over the thumbnail when you move your mouse cursor over it).  If the metadata is clear, then I expect the problem to be with C1 and you should contact their support team for help (I don't know much about C1 so I can't help if it is a C1 problem.)

Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your sample file(s), if you're using RAW files, be sure to provide the XMP sidecar file if it exists.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline fourdogslong

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2020, 12:20:25 PM »
Of course here are two of the same picture, I put some very basic metadata in both, then cleared the 'empty" version and let the other one intact.
PM shows the empty one as being empty and the IPTC one as being filled, Capture One show both as being filled still. I'll contact C1 support to see if I'm doing anything wrong but please have a look.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2020, 12:34:21 PM »
Of course here are two of the same picture, I put some very basic metadata in both, then cleared the 'empty" version and let the other one intact.
PM shows the empty one as being empty and the IPTC one as being filled, Capture One show both as being filled still. I'll contact C1 support to see if I'm doing anything wrong but please have a look.

Test Photo Empty.JPG is indeed quite empty.  It has both IPTC and XMP blocks in it and both of them contain very little metadata.

I expect that C1 is caching metadata for your image somewhere and it isn't being cleared out.

-Kirk

Offline fourdogslong

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Re: Questions from a newbie
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2020, 01:18:55 PM »

Test Photo Empty.JPG is indeed quite empty.  It has both IPTC and XMP blocks in it and both of them contain very little metadata.

I expect that C1 is caching metadata for your image somewhere and it isn't being cleared out.

-Kirk

Thanks for looking, it looks like I found the solution. The problem is indeed with Capture One. It seems that loading metadata doesn't remove the fields that have been cleared, one needs to first reset it and then reload it, I find the behaviour weird but at least I got it to work.