Author Topic: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow  (Read 7239 times)

Offline ahoward

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2022, 04:59:44 PM »
We need version native version 7 asap, with some AI functionality, otherwise its becoming rather hard to explain why PM is great to other people
Hi Max,
I believe this is your reply to this post?: Has something changed for you since then?

If this issue was related to Photo Mechanic not being an Apple Silicon native application, then it would have been present in the past 2 versions of MacOS that ran on Apple's processors, and not a new problem as of Ventura.

Otherwise, the performance issue that Ventura has caused is our top priority and we are absolutely working on a fix, but it is due to a change that Apple made in MacOS Ventura that severely affects the drawing performance of Photo Mechanic. We are working with Apple on a fix in PM to use alternate drawing methods, that in our testing have shown some significant improvements.

I'd recommend taking a look at this post from Kirk to understand why a Native application doesn't automatically mean that its faster: http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=14522.msg73303#msg73303

Offline ahoward

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2022, 05:04:17 PM »
it seems the last ventura update made it better, the apple support says it is a bandwitch problem as PM constantly reads and writes and as it is not native on M1 it slows the system down like crazy, especially when you use an external ssd even if it is a thunderbolt USB C

That seems to contradict both Apple's own support documents about how Rosetta 2 works, as well as our own discussions with Apple's engineers as to the root of the problem.

Is there any chance this was a chat or email thread with Apple support that you can us a transcript of? What was the role of the person you spoke to at Apple? Have you emailed us about the Ingest issue so that we can troubleshoot with you directly as I have requested that you do several times?

Offline Rguzmanphoto

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2022, 06:01:22 PM »
Is there some explanation why some are having these slow issues and some are not?  I am on 2019 iMac Retina 5K 8-core intel I9 with 2 external 27" monitors and also 2021 MBP M1 Pro and not experiencing and of these issues.
Thanks for the great work.

Offline Max Lemesh

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2022, 11:10:25 PM »
We need version native version 7 asap, with some AI functionality, otherwise its becoming rather hard to explain why PM is great to other people

Hi Max,
I believe this is your reply to this post?: Has something changed for you since then?

Apparently yes. I was working from NAS in recent months and thought the slow down was due to that. The rest of the PM functions worked as usual.
However I started noticing the delay when not working from NAS and took me some time to realise I'm not alone in that and that shouldn't be happening. Recent browsing of folder on desktop with a hundred of 1024px jpegs was the last drop.

Don't wanna hate on PM, I'm your biggest unofficial ambassador, teaching other photogs to utilise it in their workflow. This issue just brought forward my genuine desire for PM to still be the best and fastest solution I could recommend to pros, which I cannot do right now unfortunately.

Looking forward v7 with some addition of AI features from Aftershoot, Narrative Select and recent Cull mode in Capture One Pro.



Offline ahoward

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2022, 12:39:08 PM »
Is there some explanation why some are having these slow issues and some are not?  I am on 2019 iMac Retina 5K 8-core intel I9 with 2 external 27" monitors and also 2021 MBP M1 Pro and not experiencing and of these issues.
Thanks for the great work.

It would be interesting to know what external monitors you are using and what color profile you are running? The most common thing I have seen is that folks using Ventura and Apple's newest displays (either the ones built-in to the M1 MacBook Pros or their 2 new standalone monitors), although the problem is by no means limited to that: I notice the problem the most when I enable the "High Dynamic Range" setting for my Dell U2718Q, but I don't think I even knew this option existed before I started searching for any factor that could be leading to this problem (they changed the Displays interface in Ventura so that this option is not hidden buried under a separate settings window like it was on Monterey).

Offline Rguzmanphoto

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2022, 07:23:17 PM »
Is there some explanation why some are having these slow issues and some are not?  I am on 2019 iMac Retina 5K 8-core intel I9 with 2 external 27" monitors and also 2021 MBP M1 Pro and not experiencing and of these issues.
Thanks for the great work.

It would be interesting to know what external monitors you are using and what color profile you are running? The most common thing I have seen is that folks using Ventura and Apple's newest displays (either the ones built-in to the M1 MacBook Pros or their 2 new standalone monitors), although the problem is by no means limited to that: I notice the problem the most when I enable the "High Dynamic Range" setting for my Dell U2718Q, but I don't think I even knew this option existed before I started searching for any factor that could be leading to this problem (they changed the Displays interface in Ventura so that this option is not hidden buried under a separate settings window like it was on Monterey).

iMac has 2 Dell S2715H monitors hooked up (not 4k) iMac and the dells are calibrated using XRite i1 Display Pro profile. MBP M1 is also calibrated with the XRite i1

Offline Max Lemesh

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2022, 06:58:30 AM »
Just checked and can confirm it works fine on laptop alone, but lags quite a bit when connected to Pro Display XDR.

Same folder with 150 1024px jpegs

Offline threiner

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2022, 01:53:30 PM »
It seems the issue is also related to the slow performance of external dirves on Ventura, i just spoke to a Senior Support agent at apple what did not like to confirm the issues but in the end said that the only solution seems to be to downgrade to Big Sur. What means without saying they dont have a solution for the problem. Having the drive formated in EXFAT seems also to make it worst.

I just cant believe how bad Ventura performs and how many problems it calls, to empty the recycle been on an external drive the provided me with a guide how to restart in rescue mode and use the terminal to delete the files... is just mad.


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2022, 01:55:00 PM »
It seems the issue is also related to the slow performance of external dirves on Ventura, i just spoke to a Senior Support agent at apple what did not like to confirm the issues but in the end said that the only solution seems to be to downgrade to Big Sur. What means without saying they dont have a solution for the problem. Having the drive formated in EXFAT seems also to make it worst.

I just cant believe how bad Ventura performs and how many problems it calls, to empty the recycle been on an external drive the provided me with a guide how to restart in rescue mode and use the terminal to delete the files... is just mad.

Do you have copies of these communications?  Could you share them with me?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline threiner

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2022, 02:37:30 PM »
unfortunatly i did not save the chat, as i was so angry i just closed it...

Offline threiner

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2022, 11:09:43 AM »
short update, after fresh install of Maverik all runs fast an smooth. So it is defently a Ventura problem. I notced that the transfer speeds of my ssd's was faster before i installed PM and MAC OS installed Roseta.

Offline ahoward

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2022, 11:23:34 AM »
short update, after fresh install of Maverik all runs fast an smooth. So it is defently a Ventura problem. I notced that the transfer speeds of my ssd's was faster before i installed PM and MAC OS installed Roseta.
Do you mean Big Sur? MacOS 10.9 Mavericks is not compatible with any Apple Silicon computer.

Offline threiner

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2022, 12:38:36 PM »
short update, after fresh install of Maverik all runs fast an smooth. So it is defently a Ventura problem. I notced that the transfer speeds of my ssd's was faster before i installed PM and MAC OS installed Roseta.
Do you mean Big Sur? MacOS 10.9 Mavericks is not compatible with any Apple Silicon computer.

you are right... my fault Monetrey

Offline dennis

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2022, 06:07:38 PM »
I don't want to give you too much of a spoiler alert so I will just say "we" (at Camera Bits) but mainly Kirk has been working on this with top priority. The results thus far look very promising.

I suspect Apple may "fix" this problem on their end in future macOS updates (we suspect Rosetta 2 half float issues on Ventura meaning only Apple Silicon) but the great news is we are seeing general improvement in browsing speed regardless of platform (x86 or AS) and macOS going back to Mohave.

So although there is nothing that we did "wrong" in PM regarding running on Ventura (I mean it is the same software right?), this issue has forced us to re-engineer a lot of the core image drawing code that makes PM what it is expected to be: damn fast.

We hope you will be pleased with our efforts.  Thanks Kirk, and thanks Apple for a few suggestions (but I wish this hadn't happened in the first place for you all).

--dennis

Offline ahmedphotos

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Re: After Ventura PM latest Version is extreamly slow
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2022, 10:58:33 AM »
Dennis,

This is wonderful news. Can I thank you and the team for working flat out in securing a resolution for all of us who use this wonderful software day in and day out!

I doff my cap to you all.

Best wishes
Mansoor Ahmed