Author Topic: Cropping?  (Read 4344 times)

Offline bpedit

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Cropping?
« on: May 24, 2007, 12:51:35 PM »
I am trying to crop photos in PM but it seems there is an invisible barrier limiting the bottom edge of the crop if the crop tool is dragged from above. This "barrier" is about 40% of the way up from the bottom edge of the image.

It appears that the issue is associated only with images in portrait orientation and that the vertical limit is equal to the height of an image in landscape orientation. Even when I rotate the image to landscape mode in PM (not that I would want to have to do this just to crop), the same limitation applies (becomming side-to-side in this case).

I couldn't locate the topic of cropping with a search in "Help" nor did a forum search return any relevant information. I'm working on a G5 Mac under OS 10.4.9 using PM 4.5.1 (behavour was the same with 4.5). I am attempting to crop Nikon NEF's with "large preview", originally ingested with PM, later modified with Nikon Capture 4.4.2

Thanks,
Byrne

Online Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21973
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2007, 01:24:57 PM »
Byrne,

I am trying to crop photos in PM but it seems there is an invisible barrier limiting the bottom edge of the crop if the crop tool is dragged from above. This "barrier" is about 40% of the way up from the bottom edge of the image.

It appears that the issue is associated only with images in portrait orientation and that the vertical limit is equal to the height of an image in landscape orientation. Even when I rotate the image to landscape mode in PM (not that I would want to have to do this just to crop), the same limitation applies (becomming side-to-side in this case).

I couldn't locate the topic of cropping with a search in "Help" nor did a forum search return any relevant information. I'm working on a G5 Mac under OS 10.4.9 using PM 4.5.1 (behavour was the same with 4.5). I am attempting to crop Nikon NEF's with "large preview", originally ingested with PM, later modified with Nikon Capture 4.4.2

It sounds like you have the Constrained Crop option enabled.  Change it to Normal Crop instead.

-Kirk

Offline bpedit

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 07:01:28 PM »
Nope, "Normal Crop" is checked. (My understanding of "Constrained Crop" is that it should not behave this way either.) Also, crops of any size, normal or constrained, cannot be dragged below this line.

Byrne

Offline bpedit

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2007, 09:49:27 PM »

Kirk,

I’ve found some more issues involving portrait mode images and I think they may be related to the cropping issue.

When printing a contact sheet using “Render RAW if possible”, PM does not recognize the portrait orientated images as seen in PM’s main window when asking it to “Use each thumbnail’s orientation”; it will print them in landscape mode. Using “Make all Portrait orientation” will force portraits to print as portraits but so will landscapes.

When “Use embedded preview for speed” is used, asking PM to “Make all Portrait orientation” will cause the portrait images to print in landscape orientation (the landscape images behave as expected). “Use each thumbnail’s orientation” does work as expected when rendering the previews.

My sense of this is that PM is not completely recognizing portrait orientation when assigned by the camera, in my case a Nikon D200. It seems to present portraits properly in the contact sheet window but is having difficulty recognizing them properly during cropping and printing. I notice the preview window will rotate the embedded JPEG into portrait orientation but not the underlying RAW image. In fact, I’ve measured the height of the crop to which I’m being restricted on portraits and it is exactly the width of a portrait (or the height of the underlying RAW in landscape mode).

Thanks,
Byrne

Online Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21973
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 10:31:22 PM »
Byrne,

I’ve found some more issues involving portrait mode images and I think they may be related to the cropping issue.

When printing a contact sheet using “Render RAW if possible”, PM does not recognize the portrait orientated images as seen in PM’s main window when asking it to “Use each thumbnail’s orientation”; it will print them in landscape mode. Using “Make all Portrait orientation” will force portraits to print as portraits but so will landscapes.

When “Use embedded preview for speed” is used, asking PM to “Make all Portrait orientation” will cause the portrait images to print in landscape orientation (the landscape images behave as expected). “Use each thumbnail’s orientation” does work as expected when rendering the previews.

My sense of this is that PM is not completely recognizing portrait orientation when assigned by the camera, in my case a Nikon D200. It seems to present portraits properly in the contact sheet window but is having difficulty recognizing them properly during cropping and printing. I notice the preview window will rotate the embedded JPEG into portrait orientation but not the underlying RAW image. In fact, I’ve measured the height of the crop to which I’m being restricted on portraits and it is exactly the width of a portrait (or the height of the underlying RAW in landscape mode).

Do you have the RAW rendering option enabled for Previews?  Are you shooting in RAW+JPEG or just RAW only?  Are these NEFs straight out of the camera or have you used Capture NX or some other software to modify them?

-Kirk
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 11:21:45 PM by Kirk Baker »

Offline bpedit

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2007, 07:41:49 AM »
Do you have the RAW rendering option enabled for Previews?  Are you shooting in RAW+JPEG or just RAW only?  Are these NEFs straight out of the camera or have you used Capture NX or some other software to modify them?

Kirk,
I am shooting compressed RAW only and images have been modified with Nikon Capture 4.4.2 and saved with the large preview option (1600 x ?). A very few images are modified with NX; I'll have to wait until I return home to test whether these respond in the same way to cropping and print orientation.

The RAW rendering option doesn't work for me since PM doesn't recognize the modifications made to the NEF in NC or NX while previewing or printing. However,if I do use the RAW rendering option for previews, the portrait images will appear landscape (but cropping may be applied). When I use the JPG/embedded option, the portrait previews are properly oriented in preview mode but the cropping and print orientation problems appear.

Thanks,
Byrne


Online Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21973
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2007, 09:03:30 AM »
Byrne,

Do you have the RAW rendering option enabled for Previews?  Are you shooting in RAW+JPEG or just RAW only?  Are these NEFs straight out of the camera or have you used Capture NX or some other software to modify them?

I am shooting compressed RAW only and images have been modified with Nikon Capture 4.4.2 and saved with the large preview option (1600 x ?). A very few images are modified with NX; I'll have to wait until I return home to test whether these respond in the same way to cropping and print orientation.

The RAW rendering option doesn't work for me since PM doesn't recognize the modifications made to the NEF in NC or NX while previewing or printing. However,if I do use the RAW rendering option for previews, the portrait images will appear landscape (but cropping may be applied). When I use the JPG/embedded option, the portrait previews are properly oriented in preview mode but the cropping and print orientation problems appear.

Could you please send me some sample files?  Contact me directly by clicking on my name to the left of this message and send me a Personal Message.  I will give you server upload information and instructions.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Online Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21973
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Cropping?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2007, 11:17:45 PM »
Byrne,

Do you have the RAW rendering option enabled for Previews?  Are you shooting in RAW+JPEG or just RAW only?  Are these NEFs straight out of the camera or have you used Capture NX or some other software to modify them?

I am shooting compressed RAW only and images have been modified with Nikon Capture 4.4.2 and saved with the large preview option (1600 x ?). A very few images are modified with NX; I'll have to wait until I return home to test whether these respond in the same way to cropping and print orientation.

The RAW rendering option doesn't work for me since PM doesn't recognize the modifications made to the NEF in NC or NX while previewing or printing. However,if I do use the RAW rendering option for previews, the portrait images will appear landscape (but cropping may be applied). When I use the JPG/embedded option, the portrait previews are properly oriented in preview mode but the cropping and print orientation problems appear.

The image you sent me is different than we've been used to seeing.  The embedded JPEG thumbnail and preview have both been pre-rotated to portrait orientation.  The orientation tag has been set to zero, indicating no rotation.  So when the RAW data is rendered, it is not rotated.  We have found that the Nikon maker note still contains the original orientation from when the image was shot.  Using this additional data, we can render the RAW file and then rotate it to the proper orientation which should fix your cropping issue.

The fix will appear in the next update to Photo Mechanic.

-Kirk