Author Topic: Set archive after updating IPTC  (Read 4628 times)

Offline tourist

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Set archive after updating IPTC
« on: August 27, 2007, 08:06:30 AM »
Does PM update the archive bit on files when the IPTC is modified?  From my tests it appears that it does, I just want to make sure since I rely on the archive bit to back up my changes.  :-)

Thanks

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 08:37:09 AM »
Does PM update the archive bit on files when the IPTC is modified?  From my tests it appears that it does, I just want to make sure since I rely on the archive bit to back up my changes.  :-)

I know of no code that specifically causes that to happen intentionally, but I'd have to take a closer look to see why it currently appears to do so.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 09:04:46 AM »
Kirk, AFAIK this is done automatically actually; when you save/create a file the archive bit gets set.  Backup tools then can check if this bit is set and backup those files only (e.g. in case of an incremental backup).

To my knowledge this functionality exists since the beginning of DOS ;)

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Offline tourist

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 10:15:53 AM »
Does PM update the archive bit on files when the IPTC is modified?  From my tests it appears that it does, I just want to make sure since I rely on the archive bit to back up my changes.  :-)

I know of no code that specifically causes that to happen intentionally, but I'd have to take a closer look to see why it currently appears to do so.

-Kirk


Crap, I just noticed that PM updates the date/time when the IPTC is updated.  With BBPro it would retain the file time and date when updating the IPTC.  I have the timestamps on all my files set to match the EXIF time of the pic.   Even PM allows the file time to be synced when it is ingested or renamed.  It seems like an oversight to then go ahead and overwrite that when keywording! 

I am going to take a guess here too that if the date/time is not updated that the archive bit will remain unset.  So, two things.  Is it possible to have PM retain the current date/time of the image (or sync it to the EXIF date/time) when applying IPTC data?  Additionally setting the archive flag would then allow my backup/sync software to notice that the file has changed even though the timestamp and the file size has not?

Thanks!
tourist

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 06:36:24 AM »
Tourist, what PM does is right; the file is altered so the file update-datetime should be updated.  If you really want, however, you can reset the file datetimes by Tools|Update Capture Date Times.

Hope this helps,
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Offline tourist

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2007, 10:27:34 AM »
Tourist, what PM does is right; the file is altered so the file update-datetime should be updated.  If you really want, however, you can reset the file datetimes by Tools|Update Capture Date Times.

Hope this helps,

It is not right or wrong, it is inconsistent.   I have PM set to match the timestamp of the file to the EXIF timestamp.  Clearly I am not alone in this since it is an option in both PM and BBPro.  That PM then overwrites that timestamp when keywording seems inconsistent in light of attempts in other parts of the app to keep the EXIF timestamp and the file timestamp in sync.    I am not at all interested in the date time that the file was keyworded, I am interested in the time the picture was taken.   That the filestamp matches that timestamp makes it easy for me to sort and browse through my images with tools that know nothing about EXIF.

As to your second point.  As near as I can tell the update capture date times does not reset the file timestamps back to the EXIF timestamp, and even if it did it would be an extra step that I would rather avoid.   It appears that you do not keep the two in sync which is why you may not feel this is an issue.  For those of us who do though it is an issue, and it does not seem "right".

Offline IanGoldstein

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2007, 01:36:18 PM »
Perhaps this could be (yet another) preference item?

Working outside of PM with tools which are unaware of EXIF data, I can certainly see a need to use the file timestamp for sorting and/or selecting files. However, everyone's needs are different. Some may want the timestamp to reflect when the image was captured, whereas others may be interested in the last modification date/time for archive purposes or to track edits/revisions.  Of course, that could also bring up a discussion as to what is actually considered a modification worthy of updating a timestamp.  I'm sure some will consider a change to a color class an important modification, while others might disagree, but that is another discussion.  ;D

-Ian

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Set archive after updating IPTC
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2007, 11:37:50 AM »
Tourist, what PM does is right; the file is altered so the file update-datetime should be updated.  If you really want, however, you can reset the file datetimes by Tools|Update Capture Date Times.

Hope this helps,

It is not right or wrong, it is inconsistent.   I have PM set to match the timestamp of the file to the EXIF timestamp.  Clearly I am not alone in this since it is an option in both PM and BBPro.  That PM then overwrites that timestamp when keywording seems inconsistent in light of attempts in other parts of the app to keep the EXIF timestamp and the file timestamp in sync.    I am not at all interested in the date time that the file was keyworded, I am interested in the time the picture was taken.   That the filestamp matches that timestamp makes it easy for me to sort and browse through my images with tools that know nothing about EXIF.
Tourist, I actually only wanted to point out that from a file system perspective, PM does what it should do. When a file is changed, the file update datetime should  be updated.  This is not always what you want (as you have correctly indicated), but by default it is the proper way.

PM does provide you with a way of changing both the file creation datetime as well as the latest file modification datetime (like other programs do as well).  This is a nice service, and could be used as a (temporary?) work-around for your request.  That's all I wanted to indicate.

Note: most likely you have and will never see the file creation datetime as by default the OS always shows the last modification datetime.  (there is a third timestamp as well by the way, the last accessed datetime ;))

As to your second point.  As near as I can tell the update capture date times does not reset the file timestamps back to the EXIF timestamp, and even if it did it would be an extra step that I would rather avoid.   It appears that you do not keep the two in sync which is why you may not feel this is an issue.  For those of us who do though it is an issue, and it does not seem "right".

What version of PM do you use?  PM 4.5.2 certainly has this feature (see screen capture of dialog below).  I agree this is an extra step though.  I see you already posted a feature request, so lets see what Camerabits can do in this case ;)

(By the way, I HAVE used this feature myself to keep the files with the right datetime!)

Again, I hope this helps  :)

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