Author Topic: File conversion  (Read 7984 times)

Offline courtlevephoto

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File conversion
« on: November 28, 2007, 10:20:03 AM »
Not sure if this is in the works but one feature I would like and use a lot in other programs is the ability to convert images to different file formats with options such as resoloution and image size.  I work mostly in RAW/NEF/DNG but have clients that only need or can use JPEGs.  I've been using Iview to do this function which allows for all of these options and gives you the option to create/choose a folder to export too.




Just my .02.


Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2007, 12:32:13 PM »
Select the images and click Tools-->Extract from the menu.  That will extract the embedded JPGs from the raw files and save a  bundle of time.  It's one of the great features of the app...

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2007, 05:01:38 PM »
Well it is a great tool of PM I use often, but it is really far from a file conversion. This way you never process the RAW file itself, only strip the embedded JPG from the RAW. In case your client accepts these (often smaller resolution) JPGs it is fine. But in case the customer wants the full resolution image just doesn't want RAW but JPG instead then you have to render the JPG from the raw. PM Mac version has this option but under windows it takes a RAW processing utility.
Working on Mac, OSX, iOS and with some Canons.
Allways shooting RAW.

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Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 05:18:42 PM »
szurkebarat,

I guess it depends on your camera.  My D200 creates a full size embedded JPG of pretty decent quality.  Same with my D70.  My D2H does NOT create full size embedded JPGs and that is an adventure unto itself, although there is a way to embed a very high quality in-camera JPG (shooting Raw+JPG Fine).  If I batch process raw images in CaptureNX, once saved the raw file will have a very high quality JPG (even the D2H files).  I have a lot of images saved in the old Capture V4 with the "large preview" option turned off, which is something I deeply regret but I didn't know at the time why I needed that JPG.  May have been performance issues too.

So it is a complex issue that is very dependent on the camera and maybe other software. 

Neil

Offline TiggerGTO

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 05:38:23 AM »
I had a similar question about allowing the resize and quality options to be specified during the extract jpg operation.  Kirk responded that an easy solution would be to allow "Save as" to work with raw files.

Kirk, is this actually going to be implemented?  If so, do you know when we'll see it?

Thanks,
Danny

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 06:45:46 AM »
Danny,

I had a similar question about allowing the resize and quality options to be specified during the extract jpg operation.  Kirk responded that an easy solution would be to allow "Save as" to work with raw files.

Kirk, is this actually going to be implemented?  If so, do you know when we'll see it?

We're considering it.  Some RAW files are completely unsuitable for working in this manner (their embedded preview is nothing more than a thumbnail) but many more modern formats would work quite well (NEF, CR2.)

-Kirk

Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 07:02:20 AM »
Hi Kirk,

Just an observation from a user of two months or so...  I think this is the second most important feature addition you could do (the first would  help me solve my D2H small JPG Preview problem).  One of the many benefits I got from PM is the ability to eliminate my JPG Preview images that I previously shot in camera (Nikon NEF + Fine).   Your app and other apps provide some solutions for the problems associated with managing these image pairs, but I have never found anything totally satisfying.  The most elegent work flow should result in as few copies of the original image as possible, while maintining whatever capabilities are needed.  As it stands now, I effectively have to manage a full size JPG anyway: the image extracted from the raw.   For example, the soft cropping feature is very powerful and solves other problems associated with hard cropping the original image.  BUT... I can't soft crop the NEF, and that alone forces me to maintain a full size JPG just to maintain the soft crop for future use.

Save as capability for the raw file would provide tools and work flow options to hugely streamline my own work flow.  Here I'm just arguing the relative value of this potential feature request, which I think should be top priority.

Some raw formats may not provide adequate size previews to utilize this function.  However, 80% of the world shoots Nikon and Canon and at least Nikon (in most cases) provides full size previews.  I don't think you should be concerned about the limitations of some cameras.  I think you should be concerned with satisfying that large pool of PM users that can take advantage of their embedded previews, especially considering the tremendous value of that feature addition.   

Best,
Neil


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 07:06:39 AM »
Neil,

Just an observation from a user of two months or so...  I think this is the second most important feature addition you could do (the first would  help me solve my D2H small JPG Preview problem).  One of the many benefits I got from PM is the ability to eliminate my JPG Preview images that I previously shot in camera (Nikon NEF + Fine).   Your app and other apps provide some solutions for the problems associated with managing these image pairs, but I have never found anything totally satisfying.  The most elegent work flow should result in as few copies of the original image as possible, while maintining whatever capabilities are needed.  As it stands now, I effectively have to manage a full size JPG anyway: the image extracted from the raw.   For example, the soft cropping feature is very powerful and solves other problems associated with hard cropping the original image.  BUT... I can't soft crop the NEF, and that alone forces me to maintain a full size JPG just to maintain the soft crop for future use.

Save as capability for the raw file would provide tools and work flow options to hugely streamline my own work flow.  Here I'm just arguing the relative value of this potential feature request, which I think should be top priority.

Some raw formats may not provide adequate size previews to utilize this function.  However, 80% of the world shoots Nikon and Canon and at least Nikon (in most cases) provides full size previews.  I don't think you should be concerned about the limitations of some cameras.  I think you should be concerned with satisfying that large pool of PM users that can take advantage of their embedded previews, especially considering the tremendous value of that feature addition.

And what was the "first most important feature addition"?

-Kirk

Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 07:54:55 AM »
Hi Kirk,

THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE ADDITION for me would be the ability to do what Nikon View Transfer V4 can do on ingest:  merge the in camera JPG Preview with the Raw NEF. 

My front end browser (PM) and my catalog app (iMatch) both rely heavily on the embedded JPG.  My stupid camera builds 500 pixel embedded JPGs, which are insuficient for browsing.   Unfortunately, I use that camera for high speed burst shooting so the quantities can be huge- 1500 or more per shooting day for some subjects.  Having struggled with this for years and really looking at the problem over the past few months as I have acquired iMatch and PM, I am convinced that I *have* to embed full size JPGs into all my raw files, prior to my initial culling. 

Currently I use Nikon View's Transfer V4.4, which does that merge.  Two problems with that... first, my $150 front end miracle browser's wonderful ingest module is useless for me and I would really like to use it.  The second, and potentially more important problem, is that Nikon chose to deprecate that feature in ViewNX's transfer.  I don't know if View 4.4 can deal ingest D3 or D300 images.   I would assume it would not be a good idea to do so.  If true, then that means I will eventually have to use two different ingesters or I have to dump my D2H just to solve this problem.    I have no immediate plans on a D300, but it could happen within the next 12 months.  I will probably defer that purchase simply because of this mess, unless I abandon the D2H. 

I know this is all somewhat unique to me, but OTOH there are still a lot of D2H's out there and I would think there is a need for this feature.  You previously discussed this in the forum and concluded that you can't do the merge.  That's a shame because it severely limits the value of PM to me.   

I would also like to use your CD burn feature more often.  The ability to easily organize burn multi-volume DVD burns is important to me and an important reason why I bought PM.  Aside from problems with the burn hanging that I have never resolved (and have discussed here) the lack of verification probably means I should not be doing the burn with PM.   I'm not sure it's a good idea to be making unverified optical backups.  I put the CD burn a very close 3rd, mainly because now I have two very important PM modules I really can't or shouldn't be using- ingest and burn.  Those modules would solve key problems in my work flow.

Thanks for listening (and asking),
Neil






Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 08:15:04 AM »
THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE ADDITION for me would be the ability to do what Nikon View Transfer V4 can do on ingest:  merge the in camera JPG Preview with the Raw NEF. 

My front end browser (PM) and my catalog app (iMatch) both rely heavily on the embedded JPG.  My stupid camera builds 500 pixel embedded JPGs, which are insuficient for browsing.   Unfortunately, I use that camera for high speed burst shooting so the quantities can be huge- 1500 or more per shooting day for some subjects.  Having struggled with this for years and really looking at the problem over the past few months as I have acquired iMatch and PM, I am convinced that I *have* to embed full size JPGs into all my raw files, prior to my initial culling. 

Currently I use Nikon View's Transfer V4.4, which does that merge.  Two problems with that... first, my $150 front end miracle browser's wonderful ingest module is useless for me and I would really like to use it.  The second, and potentially more important problem, is that Nikon chose to deprecate that feature in ViewNX's transfer.  I don't know if View 4.4 can deal ingest D3 or D300 images.   I would assume it would not be a good idea to do so.  If true, then that means I will eventually have to use two different ingesters or I have to dump my D2H just to solve this problem.    I have no immediate plans on a D300, but it could happen within the next 12 months.  I will probably defer that purchase simply because of this mess, unless I abandon the D2H. 

I know this is all somewhat unique to me, but OTOH there are still a lot of D2H's out there and I would think there is a need for this feature.  You previously discussed this in the forum and concluded that you can't do the merge.  That's a shame because it severely limits the value of PM to me.

Can't you just run Nikon's NPrevCreator3 on your images in a batch?  I know it takes time to do so, but it may be a solution.

Quote from: NeilR
I would also like to use your CD burn feature more often.  The ability to easily organize burn multi-volume DVD burns is important to me and an important reason why I bought PM.  Aside from problems with the burn hanging that I have never resolved (and have discussed here) the lack of verification probably means I should not be doing the burn with PM.   I'm not sure it's a good idea to be making unverified optical backups.  I put the CD burn a very close 3rd, mainly because now I have two very important PM modules I really can't or shouldn't be using- ingest and burn.  Those modules would solve key problems in my work flow.

Adding a verify to the disc burning in the Windows version is on my list of things to do.

-Kirk

Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 12:13:28 AM »
[Can't you just run Nikon's NPrevCreator3 on your images in a batch?  I know it takes time to do so, but it may be a solution.
-Kirk



Sure.  But NPrevCreator3 only builds a 1600 pixel jpg (the image is about 2400 pixels wide).   I might as well just re-render and save the NEF in Capture because either method processes images at about 6 images per minute.  If I shoot 1500 images in a day (something I frequently do), it requires 150 minutes of processing, with either method.  If I shoot two days back to back, I can't even properly review my images in the evening because I need a 2+ hour batch process just to browse them.  PM is all about speed and simplification of workflow, which is what I am trying to do here.  View 4.4 gives me that speed because the merge is just a bit slower than a regular ingest and the workflow is no more complicated than any other body with a proper embedded preview image.

Neil

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2007, 07:26:42 AM »
Neil,

[Can't you just run Nikon's NPrevCreator3 on your images in a batch?  I know it takes time to do so, but it may be a solution.

Sure.  But NPrevCreator3 only builds a 1600 pixel jpg (the image is about 2400 pixels wide).   I might as well just re-render and save the NEF in Capture because either method processes images at about 6 images per minute.  If I shoot 1500 images in a day (something I frequently do), it requires 150 minutes of processing, with either method.  If I shoot two days back to back, I can't even properly review my images in the evening because I need a 2+ hour batch process just to browse them.  PM is all about speed and simplification of workflow, which is what I am trying to do here.  View 4.4 gives me that speed because the merge is just a bit slower than a regular ingest and the workflow is no more complicated than any other body with a proper embedded preview image.

Can you send me three files?  I would need a NEF and its JPEG straight out of the camera, and then a NEF that has had this merge performed on it.  Maybe we could figure out how Nikon View 4.4 is doing it and write our own merge function.

Contact me privately for server upload information.  Click on my name to the left of this message and then click on the "personal message" link.

-Kirk

Offline NeilR

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Re: File conversion
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 07:33:24 AM »
Kirk, you have PM.  Thanks for taking an interest in this issue!

Neil