Author Topic: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?  (Read 12890 times)

Offline Faas

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Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« on: September 06, 2008, 12:27:56 AM »
Hello,
i am not sure if this is the right category if not please move the thread.

I was wondering if Photo Mechanic would work proper on a netbook with the Intel Atom Processor.
I am planing to buy one in Oktober because of the size of the netbook.
The Netbook will have:

CPU: Intel Atom N270 @ 1.6Ghz
RAM: 1GB RAM
HD: 80 - 120GB HDD
Display: 10.2 inch (1024×600)
Graphic:  Intel GMA 945 chipset

So i am not sure if this will be enough to run PM.

Does somebody maybe still tested PM on a Netbook ?

Thx Jan

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 12:49:34 AM »
Jan,

i am not sure if this is the right category if not please move the thread.

I was wondering if Photo Mechanic would work proper on a netbook with the Intel Atom Processor.
I am planing to buy one in Oktober because of the size of the netbook.
The Netbook will have:

CPU: Intel Atom N270 @ 1.6Ghz
RAM: 1GB RAM
HD: 80 - 120GB HDD
Display: 10.2 inch (1024×600)
Graphic:  Intel GMA 945 chipset

So i am not sure if this will be enough to run PM.

Does somebody maybe still tested PM on a Netbook ?

The biggest issue that I can see is the small display.  There are many dialogs in Photo Mechanic that approach the size of 1024x768 and would be partially clipped off on a screen with a 1024x600 size.  If the computer has the capability to scroll around a larger virtual display then that would work fine.

-Kirk

Offline Faas

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 02:10:15 AM »
Yes i see the problem with the small display too.

I will try at home with an Background image with the size of 1024x600 if everything fits.

Thx Jan

Offline Faas

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 10:59:52 PM »
I have just simulated the screen and the only Dialog which will not fit exatcly are preferences. But I think the biggest Problem will be the Editing Screen which will not fit into 1024x600 it is designed for 1024x768

Grettings
Jan

Offline Frantisek Vlcek

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 11:57:11 PM »
What Editing screen? I use PM on 1024x600 display daily, it works. Some dialogs have problems, but mostly with just the OK/Cancel buttons. Which can be get at by enter/escape.

Offline Faas

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 05:42:35 AM »
The screen when you double click on a photo. If have just tested it with markers on my desktop which simulate the screen of 1024x600 und the editing window doesn't fit. It is longer than the marks. I don't know if this will be a problem on the netbook but i could see it on the desktop.

Greetings Jan

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 06:11:21 AM »
Jan,

The screen when you double click on a photo. If have just tested it with markers on my desktop which simulate the screen of 1024x600 und the editing window doesn't fit. It is longer than the marks. I don't know if this will be a problem on the netbook but i could see it on the desktop.

The Preview window is resizable.  Have you tried resizing it?

-Kirk

Offline Frantisek Vlcek

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 08:09:16 AM »
The screen when you double click on a photo. If have just tested it with markers on my desktop which simulate the screen of 1024x600 und the editing window doesn't fit. It is longer than the marks. I don't know if this will be a problem on the netbook but i could see it on the desktop.

Greetings Jan

The window adapts to the screen size. Of course in your simulation the window doesn't know the "simulated" size but only the real desktop size...

Offline Frantisek Vlcek

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 11:08:23 AM »
Ok. Did a comprehensive survey of all PM's dialogs on the mininotebook with 1024x600 pixel screen:

*Preview window - ok
*IPTC classic editor - ok
*IPTC new editor - ok
*IPTC stationery (classic) - ok
*Preferences - lower buttons are truncated (Import/Export/OK/Cancel). Workaround #
*FTP window - ok
*Upload (PHotoshelter et cetera) - ok
*Email photos - can't test, no MAPI on my notebook
*Adjust capture date/time - ok
*Structured keywords panel - ok
*Normal keywords panel - ERROR, by default longer than screen height, but resizable - though if resized, the Apply to selected... button only shows one third (even if moved all the way up). Still can be pressed though
*Set User/Client vars - NOT OK. Can just see and enter text on the lowest fields (Client1,Client2,Client3), but few pixels of them are truncated. OK/Cancel buttons not visible. Still usable with #
*IPTC stationery (new) - ok (must be resized manually first, then shows the button right. Just drag the upper window border down)
*Ingest - ok
*SAVE AS - NOT OK. The complete line of buttons (OK/Cancel/Flash/Variables) is not visible. Possible workardound #, but clumsy. PLEASE REDESIGN...

all other dialogs are small enough to fit on much smaller screen.

# Workaround:

(on 1024x600 screen, it's quite important to have the Windows Task bar set to hide automatically, this reclaims a bit of space)
Workaround - you can always press ESC to cancel the whole dialog, and press ENTER to OK the dialog. Also, you can grab the window title bar and move it upwards a bit behind the top edge of screen, which makes just enough of the buttons visible to work.

So, all in all, PM is quite usable on a 1024x600 screen albeit with some clutches, and these only with the Save As dialog (User/Client dialog might get used quite less)

Although, as a feature request, as I know of a number of photographers from both papers and networks considering these netbooks for traveling light, and the 1024x600 a de facto standard on most such devices (with only very few of the most expensive ones sporting such as 1280x800), I humbly suggest to Kirk to redesign slightly the Save As dialog. At a cursory glance, these might work:

1) moving the Convert to sRGB and Sharpen buttons next to the Resolution field, with Convert above the Sharpen. Still a convenient location. Thus, a whole line of space saved.
2) Removing the blank line between Rename as' Set Seqn variable... button and Open destination as Contact sheet checkbox. Another line saved.
3) Adding universal keyboard shortcut for selecting the Flash and Variables dialogs (the OK and Cancel are accessed by Enter/Escape already)
Together these optimisations would make sure that the Save As dialog is visible completely even on 600px high screen, which is used by plenty of new small devices (some as small as a 5x7" photograph, like the Kohjinsha S3 and Fujitsu U2010 and even smaller Willcomm D4 - while running full Windows with HDD!).
z
Even better would be adding an option like Small Screen Support in preferences, which would  make the dialogs even slimmer, although I don't know anything how that difficult in Windows windowing model is. The changes to the Save As would suffice and make it 100% usable which would be enough :-) Please consider this, Kirk.

Now to some usability - So far I have heard the Atom CPU (1.6GHz) used in these netbooks is roughly comparable to old Pentium-M at 1Ghz (Banyas core). Some subsystems could be faster, some slower, but all in all roughly comparable. I have been using the JVC MP-XP 731 which has the Pentium-M at 1Ghz fitted with 1GB RAM and upgraded with 7200RPM HDD (the HDD upgrade made all the difference - 4200 vs 7200 is quite a lot in system responsiveness).

I can run PM reviewing 10megapixel files comfortably (although more RAM would help), and edit them in PS on the go to meet football deadlines comfortably. Of course I do not open ten files at once in PS, which is generally a bad idea anyway unless  you are on Mac Pro... Lightroom performance is so so, but it has always been so - it is certainly usable, but don't expect to shoot RAW on football match deadlines... which most people don't do anyway. Of course some complex edits with multiple layers and multiple filters are bad idea, but for a computer that fits inside a Domke insert (!) in my F2 bag, that's still pretty remarkable - I use it for newspaper file preparation where I usually adjust levels and curves and highlights/shadows at maximum. Complex editing is best left for home with calibrated monitor and big tower desktop...Although I used the mininotebook on magazine assignment in China (no hot deadline) even with 1DmkIII RAWs inside Lightroom and managed :)

So, based on this, I would say the netbooks would certainly be usable for photojournalism work with JPEGs, and occassional RAWs if not on deadline.
I would recommend maxing your RAM (AFAIK the Asus and Wind support up to 2GB with aftermarket RAM upgrades, and the hardware platform might even support more) and getting the fastest HDD available (AFAIK most of these netbooks with HDDs instead of SSDs use standard 2.5" notebook drives, which are possible to get at 7200RPM speed, and swapping them in both MSI and ASUS shouldn't be too difficult). If computer savvy, I also recommend slimming down the operating system of unneeded things and services, deleting unneeded photoshop plugins and so on. Try XPlite or nLite.

Hope this helps, Frantisek

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 12:12:09 PM »
Ok. Did a comprehensive survey of all PM's dialogs on the mininotebook with 1024x600 pixel screen:

*SAVE AS - NOT OK. The complete line of buttons (OK/Cancel/Flash/Variables) is not visible. Possible workardound #, but clumsy. PLEASE REDESIGN...

So, all in all, PM is quite usable on a 1024x600 screen albeit with some clutches, and these only with the Save As dialog (User/Client dialog might get used quite less)

Although, as a feature request, as I know of a number of photographers from both papers and networks considering these netbooks for traveling light, and the 1024x600 a de facto standard on most such devices (with only very few of the most expensive ones sporting such as 1280x800), I humbly suggest to Kirk to redesign slightly the Save As dialog. At a cursory glance, these might work:

1) moving the Convert to sRGB and Sharpen buttons next to the Resolution field, with Convert above the Sharpen. Still a convenient location. Thus, a whole line of space saved.
2) Removing the blank line between Rename as' Set Seqn variable... button and Open destination as Contact sheet checkbox. Another line saved.
3) Adding universal keyboard shortcut for selecting the Flash and Variables dialogs (the OK and Cancel are accessed by Enter/Escape already)
Together these optimisations would make sure that the Save As dialog is visible completely even on 600px high screen, which is used by plenty of new small devices (some as small as a 5x7" photograph, like the Kohjinsha S3 and Fujitsu U2010 and even smaller Willcomm D4 - while running full Windows with HDD!).
z
Even better would be adding an option like Small Screen Support in preferences, which would  make the dialogs even slimmer, although I don't know anything how that difficult in Windows windowing model is. The changes to the Save As would suffice and make it 100% usable which would be enough :-) Please consider this, Kirk.

Here is what the Save As dialog looks like on Windows in version 4.6:


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Frantisek Vlcek

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 04:55:30 AM »
Oh my! Can't wait to get the 4.6 :-) Not only would it fit probably perfectly on 600px screen (it's around 550px high, and that's with the space bloated Luna theme, even smaller with the normal old windows theme), it has all the features for advanced saving - like variables in the destination path! Great!
I assume the Save to this folder... "+" path is for automatic backup to second path?
And "always pick destination" ?
Oh, that would be the old behaviour like it is now, I presume?

Well, I am much looking forward to it :-) PM gets better and better!

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2008, 06:11:40 AM »
Frantisek,

Oh my! Can't wait to get the 4.6 :-) Not only would it fit probably perfectly on 600px screen (it's around 550px high, and that's with the space bloated Luna theme, even smaller with the normal old windows theme), it has all the features for advanced saving - like variables in the destination path! Great!
I assume the Save to this folder... "+" path is for automatic backup to second path?
And "always pick destination" ?
Oh, that would be the old behaviour like it is now, I presume?

Well, I am much looking forward to it :-) PM gets better and better!

The "Save to this folder + ..." item is so you can have a 'hard' parent directory and then use variables to create subfolders for jobs within that folder.
The 'Always Pick Destination' option does indeed force the dialog to work as it always has.

-Kirk

(BTW, you missed the feature where we now allow you to do a Save As from RAW files.  It's in there too.)

Offline JS

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 07:34:05 AM »
Hi Frantisek,

I have been using the JVC MP-XP 731 which has the Pentium-M at 1Ghz fitted with 1GB RAM and upgraded with 7200RPM HDD (the HDD upgrade made all the difference - 4200 vs 7200 is quite a lot in system responsiveness).

what 7200 RPM IDE HDD did You use?I find only with 5400 RPM.The faster ones are all SATA.And for the MP-XP 731 I find only 512 MB-RAM.Your advice will be much appreciated.

Regards JS

Offline Frantisek Vlcek

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 04:50:29 PM »
Hi JS, I think it has been a Hitachi Travelstar series. Dunno if it's still made. The transition to SATA has been rather sharp for notebooks. But now I looked, and my local internet retailer doesn't even offer any 7200 drives in 2.5" ATA :-( So you might want to look around...Even the new fast SSDs are almost all SATA :-(

Offline JS

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Re: Photomechanic on a Netbook ?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 02:48:04 PM »
Thanks Frantisek,

I try my luck.

Regards Johann