Author Topic: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior  (Read 10717 times)

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« on: October 24, 2008, 11:40:02 AM »
I have experienced a very odd phenomenon involving photomechanic.
I work with DNG files and my workflow is to use photomechanic to choose my images and then lightroom to do the adjusting of the tones/colors etc.
I write the changes to my DNG files in lightroom.
The weird thing is that if I view that folder of images in photomechanic again and, say, change some IPTC data, and then view the images in lightroom after this change --- my dng's lose all the lightroom adjustments and only look like the raw camera version of the file (ie the image before any work was done). Same with photoshop camera raw.

Any ideas on why this happens and a way to not let it happen? I realize the issue is mainly lightroom but wondered if you had any insight. Thanks.

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 11:41:45 AM »
Forgot to include system stats:
OS X 10.5.5
Photo Mechanic 4.5.3.2
4 GB DDR SDRAM

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24382
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2008, 12:02:29 PM »
I have experienced a very odd phenomenon involving photomechanic.
I work with DNG files and my workflow is to use photomechanic to choose my images and then lightroom to do the adjusting of the tones/colors etc.
I write the changes to my DNG files in lightroom.
The weird thing is that if I view that folder of images in photomechanic again and, say, change some IPTC data, and then view the images in lightroom after this change --- my dng's lose all the lightroom adjustments and only look like the raw camera version of the file (ie the image before any work was done). Same with photoshop camera raw.

Any ideas on why this happens and a way to not let it happen? I realize the issue is mainly lightroom but wondered if you had any insight. Thanks.

Please post a screenshot of your IPTC/XMP tab of the Photo Mechanic Preferences dialog.  I need to see your settings.  Use the 'Additional Options...' link to upload your screenshot when you compose your response to this message.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline Ethan Welty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
    • Ethan Welty Photography
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 07:45:48 PM »
Kirk,

I have been experiencing (for almost a year) the same phenomenon with the Adobe Camera Raw Photoshop plug-in (ACR), and finally today figured it out. I have sent you a message with more details.

Basically, PM is writing over ACR settings embedded in the DNG file. What is odd are the types of IPTC changes needed in Photo Mechanic to trigger this. It requires a certain number of operations, and a certain amount of fields to be filled. Repetitive additions to an image's metadata seem to be the key:

- Take an Adobe-edited DNG with blank IPTC info, fill out all the fields, color and star rating in a single pass. Raw adjustments remain. Switch the color class in PM. Raw adjustments have disappeared in ACR. The same can be accomplished without touching the color class or star rating if you fill out most of the fields in the first pass, then add one more in a second pass.

Andy, can you repeat this on your system?

I've attached my IPTC/XMP tab. For the record, however, this problem remains even when IPTC-NAA Resources and IPTC4XMP are not added to file, and even when IPTC is written as Unicode.

(Please help!?)

Thanks,
Ethan

Mac OS X 10.5.5
Photo Mechanic 4.5.3.2
2 GB DDR SDRAM

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 07:56:01 PM by Ethan Welty »

Offline dennis

  • President
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2008, 03:04:54 PM »
Andy & Ethan,

I've found the problem and have fixed it for 4.5.4.  It has to do with the second update by PM, not the first.  Anyway, it is rather complicated to explain but it was a relatively easy fix.  We'll get you an updated beta to verify shortly.  Thanks Ethan for the more detailed info which helped to locate the issue.

--dennis


Offline Ethan Welty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
    • Ethan Welty Photography
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2008, 03:15:50 PM »
Hooray! Thanks for responding to this so quickly.
What a relief...

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 09:59:18 AM »
Well, I downloaded the newest Beta and I still am experiencing incompatibilities relating to LR & PM. I'll do my best to explain my steps taken and provide screen shot of my preferences.

I took some DNGs that had been edited (color corrected and IPTC information changed such as author and caption and things like that) within LR (I also saved the changes) and opened them in PM.

Once opened in PM I added some Keywords and then updated the IPTC/XMP information.

Then I go back to LR and Read Metadata from File on all those images that had keywords added to them in LR immediately they lost their color corrections. They did maintain the Keywords from PM, but as they have lost all the color corrections, I now have to go ahead and re-edit all of them!

Luckily I did this on a test catalog so it's not a big loss, but this kind of problem is devastating for people that use a PM and LR work flow.

What am I doing wrong?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Ethan Welty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
    • Ethan Welty Photography
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2008, 10:03:47 AM »
Where is the 'newest beta' available? I hadn't heard anything.

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 10:09:52 AM »
http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=3554.0

That's the link to Download the 4.5.4 Beta 2, but it didn't fix my problem one bit. Still having the same issues.

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24382
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 10:22:55 AM »
Andy,

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=3554.0

That's the link to Download the 4.5.4 Beta 2, but it didn't fix my problem one bit. Still having the same issues.

The fix has not been posted publicly yet.

In addition, you'll want to be adding both IPTC and IPTC4XMP to your JPEGs, TIFFs, DNGs, and PSDs.  And you shouldn't embed IPTC4XMP into TIFF-based RAW files (only use XMP sidecar files) if you're going to use those RAW files with Adobe products.

-Kirk

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 11:12:46 AM »
Is this the correct settings?

Also, when do you think we'll have access to the newest Beta?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24382
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 11:55:19 AM »
Andy,

Is this the correct settings?

The Writing section is correct.  The read section for TIFF-based RAW photos should read in the following order:

XMP sidecar file, Embedded XMP, Embedded IPTC

Quote from: andycollings
Also, when do you think we'll have access to the newest Beta?

Soon.

-Kirk

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2008, 12:39:52 PM »
Excellent. Thanks for your help. I'm looking forward to the next Beta!!!

Offline andycollings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 01:24:15 PM »
Well I downloaded the new Beta and it works like a charm! It no longer erases all my edits and replaces everything in Lightroom with the default images settings.

Thank you so much! This is what I call customer service!

Offline Ethan Welty

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
    • Ethan Welty Photography
Re: Photo Mechanic Strange Behavior
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 01:31:42 PM »
All clear in the ACR plugin, all clear in Lightroom.
Solid work, Camerabits team.