Author Topic: After some time with PM  (Read 6218 times)

Offline pmagi

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After some time with PM
« on: January 09, 2009, 12:41:10 AM »
Having used PM now for a bunch of real life jobs, I find this is the best SW tool I bought in a long time. (Rawshooter is another that comes to mind, sadly bought by Adobe, but probaly nice for the owners...;-)

There are a few things i miss from the rating/culling tool I used before, Pixort (stil available but not updated in years, and a bit buggy, but probably the best UI ever encountered for rating):

#1 Click and drag on any point in an image zooms to 100% there (in the RAW preview or full file as selected).

#2 Optional autoadvance to the next image after rating with 1-5 keys. This in combination with #1 makes for a great combination. Anyone having used a First Person Shooter game know what I mean. Keep one hand on the mouse and the other hands fingers on the 1-5 keys, and you can be deadly fast, never having to move hands or fingers.

#3 After rating completes, Copy or Move all the rated files to subfolders with selected names. Like 1-Delete, 2-Perhaps etc etc.... In PM you could even have subfolders for color ratings, like "Purple-Technical Best" "Red-Technical Weak", and the even let PM combine them like having folders named Rating + Color: "Perhaps - Technical Best". (I dont trust technology so I always put my images in subfolders with ratings like this. This way I can use any appliaction and not worry about XMP compatibility etc etc, but in PM I have to make each subfolder manually and then select and move the files myself. Work better done by the computer.)

#4 Seeing the list of thumbs at the side of the full preview. This is good for three reasons.
1. You can see that a probably better image is comming up next, or that this one the first in a serias of 5 simillar images.
2. Then you can get to see the current images as a small thumb, and this is really useful as it shows what composition works in a revealing way. In a full screen preview you can easily be fooled by the big display.
3.Then you can also CTRL-click some other images in the shown thumbs list and get in instant and synced scrolling compare of all of them. Without going back to the thumbs view.

So PM gous, have a look at Pixort, it really is a masterpiece in this area, even though probably a dead product now.

Rgds
PM

Offline Davpino

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 01:06:58 AM »
#4 Seeing the list of thumbs at the side of the full preview. This is good for three reasons.
1. You can see that a probably better image is comming up next, or that this one the first in a serias of 5 simillar images.
2. Then you can get to see the current images as a small thumb, and this is really useful as it shows what composition works in a revealing way. In a full screen preview you can easily be fooled by the big display.
3.Then you can also CTRL-click some other images in the shown thumbs list and get in instant and synced scrolling compare of all of them. Without going back to the thumbs view.

Would like this feature, too. :)

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 06:43:29 AM »
#1 Click and drag on any point in an image zooms to 100% there (in the RAW preview or full file as selected).

Typing the 'z' key will toggle you in and out of zoom mode.  Since your next wish has to do with keyboard controls, why use the mouse for this when the next thing you're going to do it type a key to rate the photo? ;)

Quote from: pmagi
#2 Optional autoadvance to the next image after rating with 1-5 keys. This in combination with #1 makes for a great combination. Anyone having used a First Person Shooter game know what I mean. Keep one hand on the mouse and the other hands fingers on the 1-5 keys, and you can be deadly fast, never having to move hands or fingers.

Version 4.6 has this feature.

Quote from: pmagi
#3 After rating completes, Copy or Move all the rated files to subfolders with selected names. Like 1-Delete, 2-Perhaps etc etc.... In PM you could even have subfolders for color ratings, like "Purple-Technical Best" "Red-Technical Weak", and the even let PM combine them like having folders named Rating + Color: "Perhaps - Technical Best". (I dont trust technology so I always put my images in subfolders with ratings like this. This way I can use any appliaction and not worry about XMP compatibility etc etc, but in PM I have to make each subfolder manually and then select and move the files myself. Work better done by the computer.)

How would PM 'know' when 'rating completes'?

Quote from: pmagi
#4 Seeing the list of thumbs at the side of the full preview. This is good for three reasons.
1. You can see that a probably better image is comming up next, or that this one the first in a serias of 5 simillar images.
2. Then you can get to see the current images as a small thumb, and this is really useful as it shows what composition works in a revealing way. In a full screen preview you can easily be fooled by the big display.
3.Then you can also CTRL-click some other images in the shown thumbs list and get in instant and synced scrolling compare of all of them. Without going back to the thumbs view.

Screen shots please.

-Kirk

Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 07:50:37 AM »
Hi Kirk,

#1 and #2. Have you ever played a First Person Shooter game on the PC? The trick is to use both hands and never having to move them. A lot of people are acustomed to work that 2-handed way with games and Photoshop for example. One on the mouse, the other on some fixed keys. Left hand does the rating 1-5 with autoadvance so you dont need arrow key for next, the right hand is on the mouse, to click-drag on any suspected unsharp photo. There are two advantages here, one is to not move the fingers from the 1-5 keys for zooming, the other is that zooming with the mouse instantly zooms in on the right part of the image. You really should download the Pixort Trial to see how super smooth this unique aproach is, youre in control and the job is done in notime.

#3. It would not know. You would tell it. "Copy all rated files to subfolders" or "Move all rated files to subfolders" in a menu. guess is should work on all the displayed thumbs, or perhaps only the selected ones.

#4. There is a trail version of Pixort available at www.pixort.com (I even think perhaps its all free by now). Small fast and easy install. And worth some study, even if PM is uniquely good too.....;-) Basically in PM it could be a column of thumbs on the left side (as the right side is full of other stuff,a dn you wanna keep the main image as close to the middle of the screen as possible, and screen real astate is usually less valuable on the sides than above/below in an imaging app, epscially on a wide screen lcd showing 4:3 ratio images).

Rgds
PM
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 08:11:22 AM by pmagi »

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 09:51:25 AM »
#1 and #2. Have you ever played a First Person Shooter game on the PC? The trick is to use both hands and never having to move them. A lot of people are acustomed to work that 2-handed way with games and Photoshop for example. One on the mouse, the other on some fixed keys. Left hand does the rating 1-5 with autoadvance so you dont need arrow key for next, the right hand is on the mouse, to click-drag on any suspected unsharp photo. There are two advantages here, one is to not move the fingers from the 1-5 keys for zooming, the other is that zooming with the mouse instantly zooms in on the right part of the image. You really should download the Pixort Trial to see how super smooth this unique aproach is, youre in control and the job is done in notime.

Yes I have played many a FPS before.  I used to be a video games programmer before I started working on PM.

And I can see clearly that I can with my left hand use keys 1-5 and 'z' without moving my hand.

BTW on Windows, Ctrl-click on an image zooms into that image location.  Ctrl-click again zooms out.  (For Mac users reading this thread, Command-click does the same thing.)

At some point we'll let you customize the keyboard shortcuts so maybe this will help.

-Kirk

Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 11:14:32 AM »
OK, then you know...;-)

Well, on my keyboard (no numpad) I cant easily reach Z without looking down at the keyboard and moving my hand. The only solution would be to use the right hand on the numpad, and then press Z with the left hand to zoom. But that would still not zoom to the right position in the image.

CTRL-Click has the same problem. If I have my left hand fingers on 1-5 I cant reach CTRL without looking down and moving the hand, loosing the 1-5 positions for the left hand fingers (wanting to keep my right hand on the mouse to click the zoom position). Try assigning CTRL-click in a FPS.....;-)

Just give the little utlity Pixort a try and you will see what I mean. No way you can be as relazed and fast with PM as with Pixort if you want to rate and zoom to precific parts of the image.

And, again, no offence, PM has one of the best rating tool UIs around, and I think I tried them all....;-)

Rgds
PM

Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 11:27:54 AM »
Ooops, seems Pixort.com is more dead than I thought. Drop me a mail and I can try to find the unregged version to send to you. Didnt find it on the web now.
Rgds
PM
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 02:53:41 PM by pmagi »

Offline vAfotoriporter

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 08:37:16 PM »
Just a few of my thoughts. I find almost all of your wishes already doable in PM.
If you want to use PM in FPS style maybe you want to buy a FPS like game controller for it. Not joking. I use a Nostromo Speed pad with lots of programmable keys at home and it gives me exactly what you miss: no need to move your hands. One hand on mouse the other on the Nostromo and you can reach all functions and be superfast.

#1 Click and drag on any point in an image zooms to 100% there (in the RAW preview or full file as selected).

Like Kirk said Ctrl/Command+Click does the same in PM.
With the nostromo (or even a multi button mouse programmed well) you can easily add Ctrl/Command click to the mouse.

#2 Optional autoadvance to the next image after rating with 1-5 keys. This in combination with #1 makes for a great combination. Anyone having used a First Person Shooter game know what I mean. Keep one hand on the mouse and the other hands fingers on the 1-5 keys, and you can be deadly fast, never having to move hands or fingers.

I use the mouse wheel for this so I don't need auto advance nor have I to move my hands anywhere.

#3 After rating completes, Copy or Move all the rated files to subfolders with selected names. Like 1-Delete, 2-Perhaps etc etc.... In PM you could even have subfolders for color ratings, like "Purple-Technical Best" "Red-Technical Weak", and the even let PM combine them like having folders named Rating + Color: "Perhaps - Technical Best". (I dont trust technology so I always put my images in subfolders with ratings like this. This way I can use any appliaction and not worry about XMP compatibility etc etc, but in PM I have to make each subfolder manually and then select and move the files myself. Work better done by the computer.)

If you don't want this to happen automatically (as Kirk asked how would PM know rating finished) with version 4.6's new save as and copy dialogs (allowing variables to use in dinamic paths) you can simply do this. But on the other hand it is not every time adviceable to sort your images into subfolders if you rated, color coded, etc them. At least I find it more efficient to have them in one folder and use PM to show/hide and sort them by ratings, colors, etc as needed instead of looking for them in separate folders. Of course there may be cases or points in the workflow to do it.

#4 Seeing the list of thumbs at the side of the full preview. This is good for three reasons.
1. You can see that a probably better image is comming up next, or that this one the first in a serias of 5 simillar images.
2. Then you can get to see the current images as a small thumb, and this is really useful as it shows what composition works in a revealing way. In a full screen preview you can easily be fooled by the big display.
3.Then you can also CTRL-click some other images in the shown thumbs list and get in instant and synced scrolling compare of all of them. Without going back to the thumbs view.

In preview mode you do have the filmstrip on the (bottom) side where you see thumbnails of previous and next images.
Number 3 doesn't work with PM. Maybe it would be good. Maybe it cannot be done since PM basically shows all images in the filmstrip and only the currently viewed is selected, or it shows only selected images in the filmstrip.
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Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 11:41:11 AM »
#1. OK, didnt think of the CTRL-Click reassign, just might do it for me as I can assign CTRL to on of my Wacom Pen buttons. However, I notice that clicking is not assigned to do anything in an unzoomed images, so why not implement click-drag-hold zooming for people who cant reprogram their mouse etc? CTRL-Click could still zoom in and then let you pan by click-drag and zoom out with CTRL-click. (The clue here is to implement it  as Click and HOLD while you want the image zoomed, then releasing the mouse button unzooms the image. This way there is no conflict with the existing behaviour, and this is how its done in Pixort too.)

#2 is comming. Great!

#3 so you say this "One command to place rated images into named subolders" i socmming too? Great if so!

#4.1 and #4.2 is already here!? I cant find out how you get a thumbs strip displayed in the preview window? Please help!

Rgds
PM
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 01:31:03 PM by pmagi »

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 04:04:45 PM »
#1. OK, didnt think of the CTRL-Click reassign, just might do it for me as I can assign CTRL to on of my Wacom Pen buttons. However, I notice that clicking is not assigned to do anything in an unzoomed images, so why not implement click-drag-hold zooming for people who cant reprogram their mouse etc? CTRL-Click could still zoom in and then let you pan by click-drag and zoom out with CTRL-click. (The clue here is to implement it  as Click and HOLD while you want the image zoomed, then releasing the mouse button unzooms the image. This way there is no conflict with the existing behaviour, and this is how its done in Pixort too.)

I'll think about this for a future version.

Quote from: pmagi
#3 so you say this "One command to place rated images into named subolders" i socmming too? Great if so!

Not the way you're wanting it to be.  But you may like the new additions after you have had a chance to try them.

Quote from: pmagi
#4.1 and #4.2 is already here!? I cant find out how you get a thumbs strip displayed in the preview window? Please help!

This feature (the thumb strip view at the bottom of the preview window) has been available since version 4.0.0.  It sounds like you have turned yours off.  The 'r' key will restore hidden panes.  There are icons in the toolbar for changing the layout of the display as well.  Please check out the manual for illustrations and explanations.

-Kirk

Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 01:01:31 AM »
OK, looking forward to 4.6!

There is something strange going on here. I cant get the thumbs strip to display. I can hide/restore the info on the right side (Info, Crop, Zoom, Histogram) but no icon turns on the thumbs.....

Rgds
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Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 01:05:00 AM »
Aaaah, there was an "invisible" line at the bottom that could be expanded to display the thumbs! Wow! Strange it was completely hidden no matter what I did!

So. Solved....;-)

/PM

Offline pmagi

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Re: After some time with PM
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 10:52:30 AM »
Quote
I'll think about this for a future version.

Perhaps it would be nice to have this "quickzoom" to always go to 100% no matter what zooming you have set for the preview. I tend to like using a negative zoom to get a thick border around the preview, and then it would be nice to click-zoom from there....ie anytime the image is not pannable the quickzoom would work and go to 100%....just a thought....

Rgds
PM