Author Topic: Live Injest  (Read 3870 times)

Offline ImageGroupLA

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Live Injest
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:12:13 PM »
I noticed the beta software now includes Live Ingest.  I do not know if I am the only one, we only shoot in the Raw format.  This would be a VERY useful feature if it worked with Raw as well as JPEG.

Offline rcohn

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 08:23:40 AM »
I noticed the beta software now includes Live Ingest.  I do not know if I am the only one, we only shoot in the Raw format.  This would be a VERY useful feature if it worked with Raw as well as JPEG.

It sure would. Unfortunately, Kirk answered this in a different thread. As I understand it, there are problems with how (at least some cameras) send the Raw data that interferes with Live Ingest. Maybe Kirk can say if this in an insurmountable problem.

Ric

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 08:56:58 AM »
Ric,

I noticed the beta software now includes Live Ingest.  I do not know if I am the only one, we only shoot in the Raw format.  This would be a VERY useful feature if it worked with Raw as well as JPEG.

It sure would. Unfortunately, Kirk answered this in a different thread. As I understand it, there are problems with how (at least some cameras) send the Raw data that interferes with Live Ingest. Maybe Kirk can say if this in an insurmountable problem.

No, it is not insurmountable.  It is however not a trivial task to determine if all of the various RAW file formats that exist are fully formed as they are appearing in a folder.  Our original take on the determination that a file was complete was to monitor a file's write progress and when the file was closed by the application performing the file creation we would consider the file complete and process it.  Unfortunately there exist situations in some software that they don't keep the file open until it is complete and instead write a little bit of the file, close the file, reopen the file, write a little bit, close the file (repeating until they finally close the file for good.)

We just need to find a 'bulletproof' way to tell that a file is complete.  We can do that with JPEGs because we can tell when a JPEG is fully-formed.  With RAW formats, this is much harder to determine because other than DNG, no RAW file formats are documented publicly and we would have to reverse-engineer them all.

An alternative to this is to change the algorithm to just check to see if a file is both closed and hasn't changed over some period of time.  But this is not a bulletproof method at all since if the delay between file updates is longer than our delay time then the algorithm will be guaranteed to fail.

-Kirk

Offline ImageGroupLA

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 09:49:20 AM »
Kirk,

Thanks for the answer.  One quick question however.  If we shoot Raw+JPG will it move the JPEGS and leave the RAW files in the folder?  Will this cause a problem or crash with the software?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 09:54:49 AM »
One quick question however.  If we shoot Raw+JPG will it move the JPEGS and leave the RAW files in the folder?  Will this cause a problem or crash with the software?

It will move the JPEGs, leaving the RAW files untouched.  No crashing should occur.

-Kirk

Offline Brendan

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 11:49:34 AM »

it should be enough to support just a selection of RAW formats. With canon and nikon (maybe sony, minolta) over 90% of the user and 99% of pro-user (= PM user) will be happy.

maybe some medium format cameras and backends. I think there two types of users, they ll use this feature:

- sport journalists (nikon, maybe canon *g*)
- studio shooters (canon, nikon, middle format..)  but the middle format users normally use other software like bridge,capture one)

so, its enough, to support nef :)
using the latest version of PM on win10

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 01:38:47 PM »

it should be enough to support just a selection of RAW formats. With canon and nikon (maybe sony, minolta) over 90% of the user and 99% of pro-user (= PM user) will be happy.

maybe some medium format cameras and backends. I think there two types of users, they ll use this feature:

- sport journalists (nikon, maybe canon *g*)
- studio shooters (canon, nikon, middle format..)  but the middle format users normally use other software like bridge,capture one)

Most people don't realize that even RAW file formats can change dramatically from camera to camera even though the file name extension doesn't change.  For instance, the Canon 20D, 40D and 50D all produce a CR2 file but the layout of the files themselves can be quite different.

This is no small task.

-Kirk

Offline Brendan

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 01:52:44 PM »
yes I forgot about this. D300,D3,D700,D3X.. so at least this cameras from nikon u have to support, and then a lot of people are crying in the forum with their D200,D100,D80,D40,D40x,D50,D60,D70,D70s,D2X,D2Xs,D2H,D2Hs...

maybe another solution is better
using the latest version of PM on win10

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Live Injest
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 03:30:13 PM »
yes I forgot about this. D300,D3,D700,D3X.. so at least this cameras from nikon u have to support, and then a lot of people are crying in the forum with their D200,D100,D80,D40,D40x,D50,D60,D70,D70s,D2X,D2Xs,D2H,D2Hs...

maybe another solution is better

Exactly.  We'll get something that works.

-Kirk