Author Topic: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom  (Read 6244 times)

Offline Mika

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PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« on: February 27, 2009, 02:01:22 AM »
I have just updated my PM to 4.6 and now I found an interesting problem: when I rate the selected photos with star ratings they won't show up in Adobe Lightroom. I have browsed thru the help file and set everything as suggested for Adobe software. All the JPEG files do have their rating and even the color class works for them. Everything worked fine in 4.5.3.2. I haven't changed any settings in Lightroom, only thing that has changed is PM. Am I missing something from the options?
--
Here is a quick review of my settings in IPTC/XMP preference tab:
Read IPTC-NAA: last resort
For JPEG, TIFF, PSD, DNG photos: Read embedded XMP before IPTC
For TIFF-based RAW photos: Read XMP sidecar - Read embedded XMP - Read embedded IPTC

Add IPTC-NAA Res..: Add both embedded IPTC and IPTC4XMP
For TIFF-based: all unchecked

When viewing in RAW+JPEG: JPEG file
for JPEGs with mutiple IPTC records: Read/update the last one
--
My OS is OS X 10.5.6 (if it matters).

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 06:16:30 AM »
I have just updated my PM to 4.6 and now I found an interesting problem: when I rate the selected photos with star ratings they won't show up in Adobe Lightroom. I have browsed thru the help file and set everything as suggested for Adobe software. All the JPEG files do have their rating and even the color class works for them. Everything worked fine in 4.5.3.2. I haven't changed any settings in Lightroom, only thing that has changed is PM. Am I missing something from the options?
--
Here is a quick review of my settings in IPTC/XMP preference tab:
Read IPTC-NAA: last resort
For JPEG, TIFF, PSD, DNG photos: Read embedded XMP before IPTC
For TIFF-based RAW photos: Read XMP sidecar - Read embedded XMP - Read embedded IPTC

Add IPTC-NAA Res..: Add both embedded IPTC and IPTC4XMP
For TIFF-based: all unchecked

When viewing in RAW+JPEG: JPEG file
for JPEGs with mutiple IPTC records: Read/update the last one
--
My OS is OS X 10.5.6 (if it matters).

Are XMP sidecar files being produced for your RAW files when you rate them?  Use the Finder to be sure.

-Kirk

Offline Mika

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 07:13:52 AM »
Yes, XMP file is created and updating. When I close the contact sheet and reopen it the rating is gone, I just noticed. It looks like the ratings are not saved even when the XMP file is updated.

It's very odd, I installed PM 4.5.4 to a different folder and tried the same procedure. The rating stays in. I don't have 4.6 Beta 2 anymore so I can't try it on that one. IIRC it worked fine in Beta 2.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 07:31:59 AM by Mika »

Offline Catto

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 12:11:32 PM »
Hi Kurt - I'm having the same problem now myself, having recently switched to both the Mac platform (10.5.6) and PM 4.6, my star ratings are vanishing between sessions of Photo Mechanic, and also not transferring to Adobe Camera Raw. 

I've copied your usual 'preferences' settings for Adobe users, including 'Add tag, color class & rating to IPTC/XMP for all photos', but I can't seem to make this work; very frustrating at the moment as I'm halfway through a job and have to get some sleep, only to find all my ratings gone in the morning when I come back to resume!  Any other suggestions as to how I could make them stick around?

Thanks,
R

Robert Catto, Photographer
Seatoun Wellington New Zealand

Offline platti

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 12:57:34 PM »
Hi,

may be related to this: http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=3944.0
Wait for the next release :)
greets from a hill
my gallery on zenfolio

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 03:43:32 PM »
Hi Kurt - I'm having the same problem now myself, having recently switched to both the Mac platform (10.5.6) and PM 4.6, my star ratings are vanishing between sessions of Photo Mechanic, and also not transferring to Adobe Camera Raw. 

I've copied your usual 'preferences' settings for Adobe users, including 'Add tag, color class & rating to IPTC/XMP for all photos', but I can't seem to make this work; very frustrating at the moment as I'm halfway through a job and have to get some sleep, only to find all my ratings gone in the morning when I come back to resume!  Any other suggestions as to how I could make them stick around?

Thanks,
R

Robert Catto, Photographer
Seatoun Wellington New Zealand

I'm having the same problem with the starratings, exactly as described above (MacBook Pro , 10.5.6, PM 4.6)
Marc

Offline scregl@gmail.com

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 12:12:50 PM »
I have been having the same problem with 4.6. PM 4.5.4 worked fine. After processing in Lightroom, the exports showed up in PM 5.4.4 with correct ratings, colors and tags. PM 4.6 doesn't even transfer the star ratings to Lighroom. This is true for Lightroom 2.2 and 2.3.  The 4.6 Problem occurs on my 6gb Ram Windows Vista Home Premium 64 bit Service Pack 1 and on my 4gb Ram Win Media Center Edition 2002 Service Pack 3.  My original files are Nikon D300 14 bit NEF files.  I haven't used XMP files in the past and the ratings and colors were properly transfered prior to v 4.6

I have been editing all my color and rating selections as keywords before I import them to Lightroom. At least I can then find the key words in the exported JPG's and then re-instate the colors and the ratings. This slows me down quite a bit. This hurts since I shoot thousands of photos a week and I have used Photo Mechanic for it's speed. 

I look forward to a quick, clean fix.

Offline MikeV99

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 03:27:08 PM »
I have color class and star ratings sometimes working across PM 4.6, LR 2.3, and BR CS4. However, I have not been able to do the same with tags.

XP sp3 system

Here are the xml entries for an image that should have a tag:

<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:ModifyDate>2009-02-20T10:55:02.56-06:00</xap:ModifyDate>
         <xap:CreateDate>2009-02-20T10:55:02.56-06:00</xap:CreateDate>
         <xap:MetadataDate>2009-03-08T16:28:58.289+05:00</xap:MetadataDate>
         <xap:Rating>0</xap:Rating>
      </rdf:Description>

Notice this one has class (label) and star

<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:ModifyDate>2009-02-20T10:55:07.96-06:00</xap:ModifyDate>
         <xap:CreateDate>2009-02-20T10:55:07.96-06:00</xap:CreateDate>
         <xap:MetadataDate>2009-03-08T16:51:00.842+05:00</xap:MetadataDate>
         <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
         <xap:Label>Good to Use</xap:Label>
      </rdf:Description>

Also, xml files for .cr2 are not ending with CR/LF. The file only has LF (0A) and the terminating character. That is a real bummer.

Finally, it appears that PM is modifying my .cr2 files if a xml file has not already been created. This is totally unacceptable. (I opened a .cr2 file in PM, changed the tag, label, and rating and closed PM; no xml file was created; however, the modified date of the file was changed.) In this situation, the label and rating do not show up in LR. I've looked in the .cr2 file embedded xml information and did not find Rating or Label.

If this is correct, maybe I should stop testing the demo until some updates are issued. :-\


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2009, 04:07:46 PM »
Mike,

I have color class and star ratings sometimes working across PM 4.6, LR 2.3, and BR CS4. However, I have not been able to do the same with tags.

XP sp3 system

Here are the xml entries for an image that should have a tag:

<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:ModifyDate>2009-02-20T10:55:02.56-06:00</xap:ModifyDate>
         <xap:CreateDate>2009-02-20T10:55:02.56-06:00</xap:CreateDate>
         <xap:MetadataDate>2009-03-08T16:28:58.289+05:00</xap:MetadataDate>
         <xap:Rating>0</xap:Rating>
      </rdf:Description>

Notice this one has class (label) and star

<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:ModifyDate>2009-02-20T10:55:07.96-06:00</xap:ModifyDate>
         <xap:CreateDate>2009-02-20T10:55:07.96-06:00</xap:CreateDate>
         <xap:MetadataDate>2009-03-08T16:51:00.842+05:00</xap:MetadataDate>
         <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
         <xap:Label>Good to Use</xap:Label>
      </rdf:Description>

Notice that neither one of these has information indicating that the file was tagged.  There is no Adobe-authored XMP tag that indicates 'tagged' status.


Quote from: MikeV99
Also, xml files for .cr2 are not ending with CR/LF. The file only has LF (0A) and the terminating character. That is a real bummer.

Why is having the line endings be just a linefeed character a bummer?  We're using Adobe's XMP library to read and write XMP.  LF is certainly a valid line ending character.  If you're having trouble viewing the data with a text editor in Windows, may I suggest using Notepad2 instead of Notepad since it is free and handles a variety of line endings perfectly.

Quote from: MikeV99
Finally, it appears that PM is modifying my .cr2 files if a xml file has not already been created. This is totally unacceptable. (I opened a .cr2 file in PM, changed the tag, label, and rating and closed PM; no xml file was created; however, the modified date of the file was changed.) In this situation, the label and rating do not show up in LR. I've looked in the .cr2 file embedded xml information and did not find Rating or Label.

What have you instructed PM to do with your TIFF-based RAW files (CR2 is a TIFF-based RAW file)?  Have you told it to embed IPTC, or embed IPTC4XMP?  Also the sidecar file would end in .XMP and not .XML...

-Kirk

Offline MikeV99

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2009, 04:37:53 PM »
Yes, I can read the xml (.xmp) files that end in LF with a different app -- but it is so easy to just double click to open notepad rather than notetab. Adobe ends them in CR/LF. Why use a Linux format for a PC (or does MAC do the same)? I have a workaround, but why not offer that option for raw files since it is offered for the other formats?

When I unselect those Always embed options, the "Always create and/or update the XMP sidecar IPTC4XMP" dropdown is grayed out. A little confusing for me (my apologies for the wrong conclusion and thank you for the quick reply). However, with the always embed options turned off, PM does create (thank goodness) the .xmp file (which is a xml file) with the following entries:

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="XMP Core 4.1.1">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:photoshop="http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/">
         <photoshop:DateCreated>2009-02-20</photoshop:DateCreated>
      </rdf:Description>
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:photomechanic="http://ns.camerabits.com/photomechanic/1.0/">
         <photomechanic:TimeCreated>105507-0600</photomechanic:TimeCreated>
         <photomechanic:Prefs>1:4:3:001517</photomechanic:Prefs>
      </rdf:Description>
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
         <xap:Label>Retouching Needed</xap:Label>
      </rdf:Description>
   </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

This gets the rating and label information transfered. But what happens to the tag information? Where else should I look for the tag information to be transfered?

I would like as much communication between LR and PM since I will use PM as the browser and LR as the image manipulator. Are these the only items that will pass back and forth?

Thank you again for your assistance and response. Very positive customer service! :-*



Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »
Mike,

Yes, I can read the xml (.xmp) files that end in LF with a different app -- but it is so easy to just double click to open notepad rather than notetab. Adobe ends them in CR/LF. Why use a Linux format for a PC (or does MAC do the same)? I have a workaround, but why not offer that option for raw files since it is offered for the other formats?

Mac OS X does indeed use LF as a line ending though the CR line ending is also common.  Only Microsoft continues to use the antiquated combination of CR/LF which made sense in the good ol' days of the teletype but is irrelevant for non-paper output.

But at any rate, we use Adobe's own XMP library to read and write XMP data on both Mac OS X and Windows.  Why it decides to write only LF on Windows is beyond my understanding.

Quote from: MikeV99
When I unselect those Always embed options, the "Always create and/or update the XMP sidecar IPTC4XMP" dropdown is grayed out. A little confusing for me (my apologies for the wrong conclusion and thank you for the quick reply).

We automatically select that option and disable it since it is the only possible remaining choice that makes sense.

Quote from: MikeV99
However, with the always embed options turned off, PM does create (thank goodness) the .xmp file (which is a xml file) with the following entries:

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="XMP Core 4.1.1">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:photoshop="http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/">
         <photoshop:DateCreated>2009-02-20</photoshop:DateCreated>
      </rdf:Description>
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:photomechanic="http://ns.camerabits.com/photomechanic/1.0/">
         <photomechanic:TimeCreated>105507-0600</photomechanic:TimeCreated>
         <photomechanic:Prefs>1:4:3:001517</photomechanic:Prefs>
      </rdf:Description>
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">
         <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
         <xap:Label>Retouching Needed</xap:Label>
      </rdf:Description>
   </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

This gets the rating and label information transfered. But what happens to the tag information? Where else should I look for the tag information to be transfered?

I would like as much communication between LR and PM since I will use PM as the browser and LR as the image manipulator. Are these the only items that will pass back and forth?

It would be great if there were a way to have Tags in PM show up as Flags in LR but there is no <xap:Flagged> tag.  LR stores that information somewhere else besides the XMP data (probably in its database.)  There is currently no way to pass the Tag status from PM to LR or the Flagged state from LR to PM.  The data just isn't there.

-Kirk

Offline MikeV99

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2009, 05:31:45 PM »
The xmp files created by Adobe LR 2.3 have lines that end in CR/LF. I agree it antiquated; however that is what most PC apps expect. The option is already in preferences for non-raw files -- that is why I mistakenly expected to see the same in raw files. Oh well, ....

I read, Using this widget, together with tagging, gives you a huge variety of ways of sorting out your images to suit your own personal style of working. Along with Star Ratings, Color Classes are also compatible with Adobe Bridge and Lightroom. in the manual. A quick read gave me the impression that tagging was also compatible with Adobe.  I also was confused by the Files/Preferences Add tag, color class, and rating to IPTC/XMP for all photos.

I had not noticed it before, but flags (as you said) as well as history are contained in the Adobe database.

Things like keywords do communicate I guess because they are standard metadata entries?

What other items does PM store in <photomechanic:Prefs>0:0:0:001513</photomechanic:Prefs> besides tag info?

Time to go play with dng files and PM.

Thanks again.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM 4.6: Star rating in RAW file doesn't show up in Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2009, 05:38:34 PM »
The xmp files created by Adobe LR 2.3 have lines that end in CR/LF. I agree it antiquated; however that is what most PC apps expect. The option is already in preferences for non-raw files -- that is why I mistakenly expected to see the same in raw files. Oh well, ....

I read, Using this widget, together with tagging, gives you a huge variety of ways of sorting out your images to suit your own personal style of working. Along with Star Ratings, Color Classes are also compatible with Adobe Bridge and Lightroom. in the manual. A quick read gave me the impression that tagging was also compatible with Adobe.  I also was confused by the Files/Preferences Add tag, color class, and rating to IPTC/XMP for all photos.

I had not noticed it before, but flags (as you said) as well as history are contained in the Adobe database.

Things like keywords do communicate I guess because they are standard metadata entries?

What other items does PM store in <photomechanic:Prefs>0:0:0:001513</photomechanic:Prefs> besides tag info?

Tag, rating, color class, and inferred frame number.

-Kirk