Author Topic: 4.6 problems  (Read 6150 times)

Offline Boatguy

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4.6 problems
« on: March 28, 2009, 09:16:36 AM »
I'm a little behind the curve and just started using 4.6.  I'm having two problems:

1)  When I Ingest, the current window (and call contact sheets) closes.  I have to open a new window, find the sheets, etc.  This is annoying, but it doesn't crash, it's not fatal.

2)  The Save As function no longer saves even close to the predicted size.  The pixel dimensions are correct so I'm guessing the quality has not been reduced to the selected level.  This is a big problem.  I'm currently working around it by using the Send via Email which seems to reduce the size correctly.

I'm using 4.6 on an MBP 15" 2.8GHz, 4GB memory, OSX 10.5.6

Thanks,

Russ

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »
Russ,

I'm a little behind the curve and just started using 4.6.  I'm having two problems:

1)  When I Ingest, the current window (and call contact sheets) closes.  I have to open a new window, find the sheets, etc.  This is annoying, but it doesn't crash, it's not fatal.

2)  The Save As function no longer saves even close to the predicted size.  The pixel dimensions are correct so I'm guessing the quality has not been reduced to the selected level.  This is a big problem.  I'm currently working around it by using the Send via Email which seems to reduce the size correctly.

I'm using 4.6 on an MBP 15" 2.8GHz, 4GB memory, OSX 10.5.6

Please try the 4.6.1 beta available in the Announcements section of the forums.  Write back to let us know if any of the problems have or have not been solved.

-Kirk

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 12:14:23 PM »
Neither problem was solved, they are both present in 4.6.1 beta.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2009, 12:40:38 PM »
Neither problem was solved, they are both present in 4.6.1 beta.

For your first problem, are you browsing the files you end up Ingesting?  If so, closing the contact sheets containing the files that are being ingested is by design.

As for the Save as issue, can you post a screen shot of your settings so I can try to reproduce it?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 04:16:13 PM »
1.  OK.  I don't know why I hadn't encountered that before, but I accept that's the way you want it to work.

2.  Screen shots attached.  The first shows the "Save As" settings, the second shows the resultant file is 300KB as opposed to the 50KB anticipated from the dialog.

Thanks,

Russ

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Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 02:53:21 AM »
Kirk'll probably explain this better, but the problem with compression is that you can not guarantee the size up front. Only after you've actually compressed it, will you know how big it is. The thing is that the amount of compression depends heavily on the content of the image (as well as the quality setting of course). I guess in this particular case the image is pretty complex (for compression's sake that is).

Or do you consistently see this big a difference (6x) on the resulting size?

Hmm, I just performed some tests and I too get larger resulting file sizes. Though definitely not with the amount you mention (still a factor of about 2 though). Perhaps this needs some looking in to… (Kirk, oh, and while you're at it, I would suggest to have the size indicator without any decimals; these give off an impression of false precision).

Cheers,
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline rjp

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 07:15:10 AM »
1.  OK.  I don't know why I hadn't encountered that before, but I accept that's the way you want it to work.

2.  Screen shots attached.  The first shows the "Save As" settings, the second shows the resultant file is 300KB as opposed to the 50KB anticipated from the dialog.

Thanks,

Russ

Boatguy,
I just tried to reproduce your problem but could not. I am running mac OS X 10.5.6.

You didn't mention what the format of the original file was. I tested using a Nikon RAW file. Whatever I set the value of the JPEG slider to agrees almost exactly with the resulting file size plus a slight increase (i.e., 1.18 MB on screen ends up being 1.2 MB on disk). At first I thought this was just rounding, but then I modified my "save as" screen to match yours. When I switched the  "fit to box" to be 600 the predicted file size dropped significantly. I set the slider so it was at 49KB. The resulting file ended up being 71KB. So perhaps there is a fixed offset of 20 or so KB in every file?

So the estimates seems to be a little low, perhaps by a fixed amount, but I was not able to reproduce the magnitude of mismatch you experienced.


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 07:27:51 AM »
1.  OK.  I don't know why I hadn't encountered that before, but I accept that's the way you want it to work.

2.  Screen shots attached.  The first shows the "Save As" settings, the second shows the resultant file is 300KB as opposed to the 50KB anticipated from the dialog.

Thanks,

Russ

Boatguy,
I just tried to reproduce your problem but could not. I am running mac OS X 10.5.6.

You didn't mention what the format of the original file was. I tested using a Nikon RAW file. Whatever I set the value of the JPEG slider to agrees almost exactly with the resulting file size plus a slight increase (i.e., 1.18 MB on screen ends up being 1.2 MB on disk). At first I thought this was just rounding, but then I modified my "save as" screen to match yours. When I switched the  "fit to box" to be 600 the predicted file size dropped significantly. I set the slider so it was at 49KB. The resulting file ended up being 71KB. So perhaps there is a fixed offset of 20 or so KB in every file?

So the estimates seems to be a little low, perhaps by a fixed amount, but I was not able to reproduce the magnitude of mismatch you experienced.

We fixed a problem relating to JPEG size estimates when using the embedded JPEG previews in RAW files as the source image.  The estimate you see does not include any metadata like the EXIF, IPTC, XMP, and ICC profiles.  Otherwise the estimate should be pretty close.  The latest 4.6.1 beta (from 03/28/2009) has this fix in it.

-Kirk

Offline rjp

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 09:11:28 AM »
1.  OK.  I don't know why I hadn't encountered that before, but I accept that's the way you want it to work.

2.  Screen shots attached.  The first shows the "Save As" settings, the second shows the resultant file is 300KB as opposed to the 50KB anticipated from the dialog.

Thanks,

Russ

Boatguy,
I just tried to reproduce your problem but could not. I am running mac OS X 10.5.6.

You didn't mention what the format of the original file was. I tested using a Nikon RAW file. Whatever I set the value of the JPEG slider to agrees almost exactly with the resulting file size plus a slight increase (i.e., 1.18 MB on screen ends up being 1.2 MB on disk). At first I thought this was just rounding, but then I modified my "save as" screen to match yours. When I switched the  "fit to box" to be 600 the predicted file size dropped significantly. I set the slider so it was at 49KB. The resulting file ended up being 71KB. So perhaps there is a fixed offset of 20 or so KB in every file?

So the estimates seems to be a little low, perhaps by a fixed amount, but I was not able to reproduce the magnitude of mismatch you experienced.

We fixed a problem relating to JPEG size estimates when using the embedded JPEG previews in RAW files as the source image.  The estimate you see does not include any metadata like the EXIF, IPTC, XMP, and ICC profiles.  Otherwise the estimate should be pretty close.  The latest 4.6.1 beta (from 03/28/2009) has this fix in it.

-Kirk


I forgot to mention that I am using PM 4.6.1 beta for the above test.

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 12:36:47 PM »
The source file was a jpeg.  The above results are using 4.6.1.

I just ran a simple test with 4.6.1 using Save As and Send As Email with the same jpeg image and same target size (640x480).  Here are the results, sample image and then screen shots attached to document the results.

Predicted / Actual

Save As:  44KB / 272KB

Send As Email:  42KB / 48KB

Russ





[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 12:41:21 PM »
Russ,

The source file was a jpeg.  The above results are using 4.6.1.

I just ran a simple test with 4.6.1 using Save As and Send As Email with the same jpeg image and same target size (640x480).  Here are the results, sample image and then screen shots attached to document the results.

Predicted / Actual

Save As:  44KB / 272KB

Send As Email:  42KB / 48KB

Are you using the latest 4.6.1 beta version from 03/28/2009?  If not, please download it and try it out.  You can read more about the latest 4.6.1 beta and download it from the Announcements section of the forums.

-Kirk

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 04:34:41 PM »
Kirk,

Attached is a screen grab of the About box for the version with which I did the above tests.

Russ

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2009, 04:35:59 PM »
I guess it's from 3/21.  I'll try the 3/28 version.

Russ

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2009, 04:43:44 PM »
Russ,

I guess it's from 3/21.  I'll try the 3/28 version.

Please do.  And also, when you post screen shots, always post them in the JPEG format.  That way they show up inline with the forums text and then people don't have to download them just to view them.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline Boatguy

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Re: 4.6 problems
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2009, 05:24:25 PM »
OK, it's a little better in the 3-28 version, the estimate was 44KB and the result was 152KB.

FYI, the TIFF Files show up inline in Safari, but I've posted this as a jpeg.

Thanks,

Russ

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« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 06:29:20 PM by Boatguy »