Author Topic: PM and Lightroom  (Read 11770 times)

Offline Carpus

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PM and Lightroom
« on: May 31, 2009, 08:46:42 AM »
When I change any IPTC data in PM, Capture NX2 reads the changes and if I change any of the data in Capture NX2 PM reads it.
Why when I change the data in PM why doesn't Lightroom read it? Does it not imbed that data?
Thanks.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 09:09:42 AM »
The problem with Lightroom is that it assumes Lightroom is the only application you use to alter the images with. Changes made to files outside Lightroom are not picked up, unless you explicitly tell it to reread a file. The option to do this is hidden somewhere in the menus. Having to do this everytime you change something of a file becomes really tedious, but is necessary when you want to keep everything in sync...

Another problem with Lightroom is that, while it reads XMP data embedded in a RAW file fine, it never updates it. It only writes the changes to the .xmp sidecar file, not to the RAW file.
PM can cope with this fine (just have it read the sidecar first). Getting Lightroom and NX to work together nicely is more problematic though; changes Lightroom made to the metadata in the sidecar file are not picked up by NX as NX only reads (and updates) the embedded data. You could use PM to sync the sidecar data with the embedded data so that NX again sees the correct information, but again this is cumbersome.

If you use Capture NX to work with RAW files, Lightroom is more of a bother than a help. This is also why I don't use it and stick to PM and NX for all my RAW editing. (For those cases where I have shot with a non Nikon camera, I perform my RAW editing in ACR and save as a TIFF).

Hope this explains things a bit.
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 09:12:09 AM »
When I change any IPTC data in PM, Capture NX2 reads the changes and if I change any of the data in Capture NX2 PM reads it.
Why when I change the data in PM why doesn't Lightroom read it? Does it not imbed that data?

It is not possible to setup PM to work properly with both Capture NX2 and Lightroom at the same time.  Capture NX2 only reads embedded XMP data, and Lightroom prefers XMP sidecars and is completely thrown off by embedded XMP data.

It would be great if the Capture NX2 folks would support XMP sidecar files and then all three applications would work nicely together.

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2009, 09:18:46 AM »
It would be great if the Capture NX2 folks would support XMP sidecar files and then all three applications would work nicely together.

That, and (more importantly) have Adobe update the embedded data as well (if it exists), like PM does it. That way everything is always kept in sync.
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2009, 12:27:57 PM »
It would be great if the Capture NX2 folks would support XMP sidecar files and then all three applications would work nicely together.

That, and (more importantly) have Adobe update the embedded data as well (if it exists), like PM does it. That way everything is always kept in sync.

Adobe is completely against modifying RAW files, that's why they created XMP sidecar files.  It is odd however that their applications use embedded XMP data in RAW files if they exist, ignoring XMP sidecar files.  It would be nice if they would fix that issue as well.

-Kirk

Offline Carpus

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 03:10:13 AM »
Thanks for the info.
So Adobe uses XMP sidecar files, which Capture NX2 doesn't read(use). But Lightroom does read embedded XMP data over a sidecar only if the data was put there by Lightroom?

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 04:59:50 AM »
So Adobe uses XMP sidecar files, which Capture NX2 doesn't read(use). But Lightroom does read embedded XMP data over a sidecar only if the data was put there by Lightroom?

Not completely: Lightroom reads the embedded data if it is there regardless of who or what put it there. Once the image has been loaded by Lightroom, it basically forgets about the embedded data and relies solely on its image database for the image information. This also means that any changes made outside of Lightroom will not be seen (unless, as I said earlier, you tell LR to reload the image).

Any changes you make within Lightroom to the image (metadata) are saved in its database and to XMP sidecar files (I think this may actually be an option too). For non RAW files, the files themselves get updated with the new info.

Does this explain things a bit?
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Carpus

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 06:07:25 PM »
Yes it does, thanks.
I guess if you want to use the cataloging capabilities of Lightroom you have to use it to edit as well. This is disapointing b/c Capture does a much better job, in my hands at least.
I guess I am going to go the PM and Capture NX2 route.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 12:18:28 AM »
Yes it does, thanks.
I guess if you want to use the cataloging capabilities of Lightroom you have to use it to edit as well. This is disapointing b/c Capture does a much better job, in my hands at least.
I like Capture a lot more than ACR (LR) myself too. For the way it works (though I'm sure both can accomplish similar results, except maybe for the control points), but especially because of the workflow: everything can stay in one file, the NEF. Eases file management.

I guess I am going to go the PM and Capture NX2 route.
That's what I did too. PM is in the process of getting cataloging capabilities in the future too so can be used for that too in a while (and knowing the quality of Camerabit's developments, it will be good :) )
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Woodie

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 05:31:05 PM »
I use PM for the front end work and NX2 for "developing" images.  Until CameraBits adds a catalog app, I'm using IDImager.  Unlike Adobe applications, it plays nicely with NEF files, no sidecar needed.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2009, 11:51:46 PM »
I use PM for the front end work and NX2 for "developing" images.  Until CameraBits adds a catalog app, I'm using IDImager.  Unlike Adobe applications, it plays nicely with NEF files, no sidecar needed.

IDImager sounds interesting, is there a link to some more info on this program?
Hayo Baan - Photography
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Offline Jonzinator

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 02:39:27 AM »
Would using DNG files help LR and PM to play nicer together?  I use LR for image editing and management but prefer PM for IPTC data entry.


Thanks


Troy


Offline dandill

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 04:50:45 AM »
I use PM for IPTC (to .CR2 XMP sidecars) and LR for editing, and the two work just fine together.

Why Photo Mechanic > Lightroom…
http://snipurl.com/jcgw4

is what got me onto PM.

Dan Dill

Offline Carpus

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 05:23:38 AM »
I tried IDimager this am. I do like the interface, but when I label or star rate images neither PM or Capture NX2 see the info. Also it doesn't see any of my previous star/label ratings. It does see other IPTC info. Any ideas?

Offline Carpus

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Re: PM and Lightroom
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 05:32:24 AM »
Update: The star ratings are working well between PM, ID imager and Capture NX2, but the color labels are not. IF I color label an image in either PM or capture idimager doesn't see the change.