Author Topic: Photo Mechanic runs slow?  (Read 14904 times)

Offline jeremynicholl

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Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« on: May 01, 2006, 11:05:25 PM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Thanks,

Jeremy Nicholl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 06:20:03 AM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Version 4.2.2 would be very old by now.  Are you sure it isn't 4.4.2?

How many files do you have in a given folder?  You said RAW, but that's a generic term.  What are the actual file types?  How much RAM do you have?  Do you have other memory hungry apps like Photoshop running at the same time?

Answer those questions and I can probably help you.

-Kirk

Offline jeremynicholl

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 11:06:50 AM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Version 4.2.2 would be very old by now.  Are you sure it isn't 4.4.2?

How many files do you have in a given folder?  You said RAW, but that's a generic term.  What are the actual file types?  How much RAM do you have?  Do you have other memory hungry apps like Photoshop running at the same time?

Answer those questions and I can probably help you.

-Kirk



Yes, you're right it's version 4.4.2. The files are from Canon 20D cameras, shot RAW+JPG, so they show in PM as, for example, 29446cr2+jpg. The powerbook has 640MB RAM.

I've just tested it with no other programmes running and 208 images in the contact sheet [that's 208 raw + 208 jpg = 416 total]. I "think" it's a bit faster than before, but it still feels rather sluggish to me. The speed lags aren't consistent: some images render at 100% instantly, others spend quite a few seconds in a jagged state before they're viewable. ISTM that PM processes the images in small groups in the background. For example images 1-4 might render quickly, but when I move to image 5 it takes a while for it to render. I also notice that from time to time the images in the film strip just disappear as I progress then they reappear, as if processing is "catching up" in the background. Is that right?

This may all be normal for the programme on my machine. I don't know since I'm only testing PM and haven't had an opportunity to compare its performance on my powerbook against another computer. Also, 208 files isn't very many: I'd often expect to load more, sometimes a lot more. Does PM slow up when large numbers are ingested? Is there a realistic working limit for the number of images?

Thanks for your help,

Jeremy Nicholl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 11:13:25 AM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Version 4.2.2 would be very old by now.  Are you sure it isn't 4.4.2?

How many files do you have in a given folder?  You said RAW, but that's a generic term.  What are the actual file types?  How much RAM do you have?  Do you have other memory hungry apps like Photoshop running at the same time?

Answer those questions and I can probably help you.

Yes, you're right it's version 4.4.2. The files are from Canon 20D cameras, shot RAW+JPG, so they show in PM as, for example, 29446cr2+jpg. The powerbook has 640MB RAM.

640 MB of RAM is extremely small in this day and age.  Any chance you could upgrade your RAM?

Quote from: jeremynicholl
I've just tested it with no other programmes running and 208 images in the contact sheet [that's 208 raw + 208 jpg = 416 total]. I "think" it's a bit faster than before, but it still feels rather sluggish to me. The speed lags aren't consistent: some images render at 100% instantly, others spend quite a few seconds in a jagged state before they're viewable. ISTM that PM processes the images in small groups in the background. For example images 1-4 might render quickly, but when I move to image 5 it takes a while for it to render. I also notice that from time to time the images in the film strip just disappear as I progress then they reappear, as if processing is "catching up" in the background. Is that right?

Photo Mechanic pre-caches up to four previews in the direction that you're viewing.  Once cached, images will be fetched from the cache.

The 20D produces 8 megapixel images which are kind of large for a 1.5 GHz G4 with only 640 MB of RAM.

Quote from: jeremynicholl
This may all be normal for the programme on my machine. I don't know since I'm only testing PM and haven't had an opportunity to compare its performance on my powerbook against another computer. Also, 208 files isn't very many: I'd often expect to load more, sometimes a lot more. Does PM slow up when large numbers are ingested? Is there a realistic working limit for the number of images?

We regularly test with a folder containing 30,000 images.  It works fine, though there is no hard limit.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline jeremynicholl

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 11:05:53 PM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Version 4.2.2 would be very old by now.  Are you sure it isn't 4.4.2?

How many files do you have in a given folder?  You said RAW, but that's a generic term.  What are the actual file types?  How much RAM do you have?  Do you have other memory hungry apps like Photoshop running at the same time?

Answer those questions and I can probably help you.

Yes, you're right it's version 4.4.2. The files are from Canon 20D cameras, shot RAW+JPG, so they show in PM as, for example, 29446cr2+jpg. The powerbook has 640MB RAM.

640 MB of RAM is extremely small in this day and age.  Any chance you could upgrade your RAM?

Quote from: jeremynicholl
I've just tested it with no other programmes running and 208 images in the contact sheet [that's 208 raw + 208 jpg = 416 total]. I "think" it's a bit faster than before, but it still feels rather sluggish to me. The speed lags aren't consistent: some images render at 100% instantly, others spend quite a few seconds in a jagged state before they're viewable. ISTM that PM processes the images in small groups in the background. For example images 1-4 might render quickly, but when I move to image 5 it takes a while for it to render. I also notice that from time to time the images in the film strip just disappear as I progress then they reappear, as if processing is "catching up" in the background. Is that right?

Photo Mechanic pre-caches up to four previews in the direction that you're viewing.  Once cached, images will be fetched from the cache.

The 20D produces 8 megapixel images which are kind of large for a 1.5 GHz G4 with only 640 MB of RAM.

Quote from: jeremynicholl
This may all be normal for the programme on my machine. I don't know since I'm only testing PM and haven't had an opportunity to compare its performance on my powerbook against another computer. Also, 208 files isn't very many: I'd often expect to load more, sometimes a lot more. Does PM slow up when large numbers are ingested? Is there a realistic working limit for the number of images?

We regularly test with a folder containing 30,000 images.  It works fine, though there is no hard limit.

HTH,

-Kirk



Yes that helps a lot. ISTM that PM is behaving normally, I just need a machine upgrade.

Thanks,

jeremy Nicholl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 11:50:46 PM »
I've been trying PM for the last few days as part of a revised workflow, and although there are a lot of things I like, I seem to be have major speed problems with contact sheet. At times images render extremely slowly, especially in the preview pane. The speed varies, but it can slow to a virtually unusable crawl.

PM has a reputation for speed, so I'm sure i'm doing something wrong, but what? I've left a lot of the prererences at the defaults: should I adjust the cache? I  always shoot RAW files: could that be the problem?

It's PM version 4.2.2, and is running on a G4 Powerbook OSX 10.4.6.

Version 4.2.2 would be very old by now.  Are you sure it isn't 4.4.2?

How many files do you have in a given folder?  You said RAW, but that's a generic term.  What are the actual file types?  How much RAM do you have?  Do you have other memory hungry apps like Photoshop running at the same time?

Answer those questions and I can probably help you.

Yes, you're right it's version 4.4.2. The files are from Canon 20D cameras, shot RAW+JPG, so they show in PM as, for example, 29446cr2+jpg. The powerbook has 640MB RAM.

640 MB of RAM is extremely small in this day and age.  Any chance you could upgrade your RAM?

Quote from: jeremynicholl
I've just tested it with no other programmes running and 208 images in the contact sheet [that's 208 raw + 208 jpg = 416 total]. I "think" it's a bit faster than before, but it still feels rather sluggish to me. The speed lags aren't consistent: some images render at 100% instantly, others spend quite a few seconds in a jagged state before they're viewable. ISTM that PM processes the images in small groups in the background. For example images 1-4 might render quickly, but when I move to image 5 it takes a while for it to render. I also notice that from time to time the images in the film strip just disappear as I progress then they reappear, as if processing is "catching up" in the background. Is that right?

Photo Mechanic pre-caches up to four previews in the direction that you're viewing.  Once cached, images will be fetched from the cache.

The 20D produces 8 megapixel images which are kind of large for a 1.5 GHz G4 with only 640 MB of RAM.

Quote from: jeremynicholl
This may all be normal for the programme on my machine. I don't know since I'm only testing PM and haven't had an opportunity to compare its performance on my powerbook against another computer. Also, 208 files isn't very many: I'd often expect to load more, sometimes a lot more. Does PM slow up when large numbers are ingested? Is there a realistic working limit for the number of images?

We regularly test with a folder containing 30,000 images.  It works fine, though there is no hard limit.

Yes that helps a lot. ISTM that PM is behaving normally, I just need a machine upgrade.

We could do more to check to see if virtual memory is thrashing by having you run some commands from the Terminal window if you want...

BTW, the new MacBookPro laptops run Photo Mechanic *extremely* well.  Better than my 2.0 GHz dual G5 PowerMac tower.

-Kirk

Offline jeremynicholl

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2006, 10:54:38 PM »


We could do more to check to see if virtual memory is thrashing by having you run some commands from the Terminal window if you want...



-Kirk

[/quote]


Yes please. Tell me what to do and I'll try that.

Jeremy


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2006, 06:25:08 AM »
Quote from: kbaker
We could do more to check to see if virtual memory is thrashing by having you run some commands from the Terminal window if you want...

Quote from: jeremynicholl
Yes please. Tell me what to do and I'll try that.

Open up a Terminal window.  The Terminal application is in the Utilities folder inside the Applications folder.

Enter the following and hit return:

top -ocpu -R -F -s 10 -n30

You'll see a bunch of information listed on the screen.  Use the mouse to select all that you see and then copy it to the clipboard by pressing Command-C.  Then paste it into a reply to this message and post it.  I'll take a look at it.  Make sure you have PM (and any other apps you usually have running) active at the time of the test.

Thanks,

-Kirk


Offline jeremynicholl

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2006, 10:42:29 PM »
Quote from: kbaker
We could do more to check to see if virtual memory is thrashing by having you run some commands from the Terminal window if you want...

Quote from: jeremynicholl
Yes please. Tell me what to do and I'll try that.

Open up a Terminal window.  The Terminal application is in the Utilities folder inside the Applications folder.

Enter the following and hit return:

top -ocpu -R -F -s 10 -n30

You'll see a bunch of information listed on the screen.  Use the mouse to select all that you see and then copy it to the clipboard by pressing Command-C.  Then paste it into a reply to this message and post it.  I'll take a look at it.  Make sure you have PM (and any other apps you usually have running) active at the time of the test.

Thanks,

-Kirk




Hi Kirk,

Here it all is below.

Many thanks,

Jeremy


Last login: Fri May  5 08:32:54 on console
Welcome to Darwin!
0-103:~ Jeremy$ top -ocpu -R -F -s 10 -n30





















Processes:  54 total, 2 running, 52 sleeping... 166 threads            09:34:43
Load Avg:  0.20, 0.65, 0.74     CPU usage:  4.5% user, 2.6% sys, 92.9% idle
SharedLibs: num =    0, resident =    0B code,    0B data,    0B LinkEdit
MemRegions: num =     0, resident =    0B +    0B private,    0B shared
PhysMem:  83.7M wired,  282M active,  219M inactive,  585M used, 54.0M free
VM: 4.09G +    0B   322524(0) pageins, 139413(0) pageouts

  PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE  VSIZE
 1009 Photo Mech   4.1%  1:42.80   7   270     0     0K     0K  85.5M   278M
   87 WindowServ   2.9%  2:08:51   2   617     0     0K     0K  72.7M+  208M+
    0 kernel_tas   1.7% 37:42.51  41     2     0     0K     0K  70.1M   687M
 1018 Terminal     0.6%  0:03.40   4    92     0     0K     0K  19.4M   156M
  232 SystemUISe   0.6% 10:29.29   3   265     0     0K     0K  3.48M   161M
 1024 top          0.5%  0:00.69   1    18     0     0K     0K  3.09M+ 26.9M
  283 CNQL1212_B   0.1%  1:41.88   1    60     0     0K     0K   664K   125M
  109 ntpd         0.0%  0:13.53   1    11     0     0K     0K   264K  26.9M
  205 cupsd        0.0%  0:14.21   2    27     0     0K     0K   576K  27.8M
  176 AppleFileS   0.0%  0:07.27   2    40     0     0K     0K   824K  34.1M
  206 httpd        0.0%  0:07.27   1    13     0     0K     0K  1.37M  28.5M
  198 ARDHelper    0.0%  0:07.64   1     9     0     0K     0K   100K  26.6M
   39 mDNSRespon   0.0%  0:08.13   4    36     0     0K     0K   668K  28.4M
  214 slpd         0.0%  0:00.97   6    31     0     0K     0K   420K  30.2M
 1021 bash         0.0%  0:00.05   1    14     0     0K     0K  1.34M  27.2M
 1020 login        0.0%  0:00.06   1    16     0     0K     0K  1.70M  26.9M
  975 mdimport     0.0%  0:00.60   3    61     0     0K     0K  4.08M  53.6M
  933 mdimport     0.0%  0:05.71   4    67     0     0K     0K  6.03M  62.2M
  849 httpd        0.0%  0:00.00   1    11     0     0K     0K   432K  27.7M
  358 AppleSpell   0.0%  0:00.95   1    33     0     0K     0K   668K  37.7M
  273 iCalAlarmS   0.0%  0:02.04   1    64     0     0K     0K  1.14M   139M
  267 Image Capt   0.0%  0:04.94   2    92     0     0K     0K  1.15M   139M
  233 Finder       0.0% 13:50.94   3   148     0     0K     0K  22.5M   320M
  231 Dock         0.0%  0:19.19   2   106     0     0K     0K  2.82M   158M
  226 pbs          0.0%  0:01.51   2    41     0     0K     0K   976K  63.2M
  225 AppleVNCSe   0.0%  0:00.07   1    30     0     0K     0K   212K  91.4M
  224 ARDAgent     0.0%  0:00.89   6    92     0     0K     0K   748K   112M
  181 mds          0.0% 40:49.10   8    97     0     0K     0K  9.86M  48.4M
  145 crashrepor   0.0%  0:00.01   1    34     0     0K     0K    84K  27.1M
  141 automount    0.0%  0:00.76   3    42     0     0K     0K   476K  28.7M













Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Photo Mechanic runs slow?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2006, 11:40:39 PM »
Quote from: kbaker
We could do more to check to see if virtual memory is thrashing by having you run some commands from the Terminal window if you want...

Quote from: jeremynicholl
Yes please. Tell me what to do and I'll try that.

Open up a Terminal window.  The Terminal application is in the Utilities folder inside the Applications folder.

Enter the following and hit return:

top -ocpu -R -F -s 10 -n30

You'll see a bunch of information listed on the screen.  Use the mouse to select all that you see and then copy it to the clipboard by pressing Command-C.  Then paste it into a reply to this message and post it.  I'll take a look at it.  Make sure you have PM (and any other apps you usually have running) active at the time of the test.

Processes:  54 total, 2 running, 52 sleeping... 166 threads            09:34:43
Load Avg:  0.20, 0.65, 0.74     CPU usage:  4.5% user, 2.6% sys, 92.9% idle
SharedLibs: num =    0, resident =    0B code,    0B data,    0B LinkEdit
MemRegions: num =     0, resident =    0B +    0B private,    0B shared
PhysMem:  83.7M wired,  282M active,  219M inactive,  585M used, 54.0M free
VM: 4.09G +    0B   322524(0) pageins, 139413(0) pageouts

  PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE  VSIZE
 1009 Photo Mech   4.1%  1:42.80   7   270     0     0K     0K  85.5M   278M
   87 WindowServ   2.9%  2:08:51   2   617     0     0K     0K  72.7M+  208M+
    0 kernel_tas   1.7% 37:42.51  41     2     0     0K     0K  70.1M   687M
 1018 Terminal     0.6%  0:03.40   4    92     0     0K     0K  19.4M   156M
  232 SystemUISe   0.6% 10:29.29   3   265     0     0K     0K  3.48M   161M
 1024 top          0.5%  0:00.69   1    18     0     0K     0K  3.09M+ 26.9M

If your system has been running for a while without a reboot and you have been launching and quitting a number of applications then 139413 pageouts is reasonable.  But if this was after a recent reboot, then that would be a fair number of pageouts.  Mac OS X does a 'pageout' when it doesn't have enough memory for a memory request.  It pages out some memory to disk so that memory can be made available.  The reason the pageins doesn't match is if an application's memory is swapped out to disk and then you end up quitting the app and it didn't get around to touching all of its allocated memory (thus causing it to pagein) then Mac OS X's VM system is smart enough to just drop them.

Adding more memory to your system would help performance, but mainly the thing that hobbles all Mac laptops prior to the MacBook Pro is the extremely slow bus speed.  Unfortunately unlike RAM and sometimes CPUs, you can't upgrade the speed of your system bus.  The PowerBook G4 series has a 167MHz bus speed.  The MacBook Pro has a 667MHz bus speed which is significantly faster.  It also doesn't hurt that it has dual CPU cores on a single chip and a large amount of Level 1 cache.

If you can't upgrade to a newer system, then I would at least max out your RAM which I think on your system can go as high as 1.5GB.

HTH,

-Kirk