Author Topic: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2  (Read 11956 times)

Offline Edgar

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Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« on: September 20, 2006, 12:09:32 PM »
Hi,

I am using the 4.4.3.2 MAc version of PM, and I realised that after I updated the IPTC info on all my NEF (D200) files, Capture One LE will display all my images with a greenish cast of color balance 4200k and -62 Tint as the "as shot" White Balance setting. Clearly all the files were not shot like that, as this issue only happened with 4.4.3.2 PM, the previous version of PM that I had tried was perfectly fine.

Did PM alter the WB values?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 02:39:20 PM »
I am using the 4.4.3.2 MAc version of PM, and I realised that after I updated the IPTC info on all my NEF (D200) files, Capture One LE will display all my images with a greenish cast of color balance 4200k and -62 Tint as the "as shot" White Balance setting. Clearly all the files were not shot like that, as this issue only happened with 4.4.3.2 PM, the previous version of PM that I had tried was perfectly fine.

Did PM alter the WB values?

No.  Photo Mechanic does not alter white balance values.  But because you likely have Photo Mechanic set to embed IPTC/XMP captions into your TIFF-based RAW files (NEF is a TIFF-based RAW file format) then Photo Mechanic altered the "TIFF table" to insert your caption into the file.  This is undoable however, so I would first try using the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" tool on the Tools menu.  Then I would change your IPTC/XMP preferences to use XMP sidecar files.  Uncheck the "Add embedded IPTC" and "Add embedded IPTC4XMP" check boxes in the "When writing IPTC/XMP" section of the IPTC/XMP tab of the Preferences dialog.  Your NEF files will no longer have embedded IPTC and/or XMP in them.

The Capture One LE folks will have to update their NEF parser to understand that the TIFF specification allows for the TIFF table to be relocated.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline Edgar

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 11:19:14 AM »
kirk ,

by doing this will I lose all my captions and IPTC information?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 11:45:23 AM »
Edgar,

by doing this will I lose all my captions and IPTC information?

No, just make sure that you set the checkbox "Backup IPTC/XMP to XMP sidecar files".

-Kirk

Offline Edgar

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 02:47:54 PM »
Thanks Kirk. That worked.  :)

But all the Jpegs processed from the RAW files didnt have any of the IPTC information, is this because it was not embedded?

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 03:17:12 PM »
Edgar,

Thanks Kirk. That worked.  :)

But all the Jpegs processed from the RAW files didnt have any of the IPTC information, is this because it was not embedded?

I take it that the JPEGs came from Capture One LE, right?  Does Capture One LE work with XMP?  If it doesn't, then there's your problem.

If you named your processed JPEGs with the same name as the NEFs, then you can join them together and then use the "Update IPTC/XMP" command on the Tools menu.  Have it "Read IPTC/XMP from RAW" which will get it out of the XMP sidecar files and embed it into the JPEGs.

If your processed JPEGs are not in the same folder as your NEFs, you can combine the two folders into a single Contact Sheet and the NEFs and the JPEGs will pair up, allowing you to use the Update IPTC/XMP tool.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline Karsten

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 02:21:05 PM »
I just don´t get it ??? What to tag and what to untag.
Is it possible you can make a screenshot of the settings you suggest?
My problem is when I upload to Photoshelter my NEF-files (Nikon D100) are wery dark. So dark you can hardly see whats on them. That is only the pics I have altered in Nikon Capture Editor. If they are not edited there is no problem. Could it have anything to do with the "sidecars" you are talking about.

Thanks. Best Karsten

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 02:49:04 PM »
Karsten,

I just don´t get it ??? What to tag and what to untag.
Is it possible you can make a screenshot of the settings you suggest?
My problem is when I upload to Photoshelter my NEF-files (Nikon D100) are wery dark. So dark you can hardly see whats on them. That is only the pics I have altered in Nikon Capture Editor. If they are not edited there is no problem. Could it have anything to do with the "sidecars" you are talking about.

PhotoShelter actually renders your NEF files on the server.  It may be that their rendering software can't handle NEFs that have been adjusted in Nikon Capture.

Sidecar files are not uploaded to PhotoShelter when you upload a photo.

If you'd like to send me a sample image that exhibits the problem, then I'd be happy to contact the PhotoShelter folks and let them know about the issue and give them your sample image for testing/diagnosis.

Contact me privately for server upload information.  Click on my name to the left of this message and send me a private message.

-Kirk

Offline arossphoto

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 06:59:29 PM »
Hi,

I am using the 4.4.3.2 MAc version of PM, and I realised that after I updated the IPTC info on all my NEF (D200) files, Capture One LE will display all my images with a greenish cast of color balance 4200k and -62 Tint as the "as shot" White Balance setting.

I was testing PM recently and experienced some similar weirdness after adding IPTC info to Canon RAW files. Were you ever able to get this to work for you, including the transfer of keywords to files output by Capture One Pro?

Quote
I take it that the JPEGs came from Capture One LE, right?  Does Capture One LE work with XMP?  If it doesn't, then there's your problem.

Is anyone else using PM successfully with Capture One? These two applications have been around for awhile and are both incredibly popular, so I find it hard to believe that they don't work together.  ???

Cheers,

Andrew

Offline arossphoto

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2006, 10:20:19 AM »
Is anyone else using PM successfully with Capture One? These two applications have been around for awhile and are both incredibly popular, so I find it hard to believe that they don't work together.  ???

Anybody have any advice about using PM with C1? Although, I just read that PM's ranking system isn't compatible with Bridge or iView, so considering all these incompatibilities I don't think I would buy it anyway. It obviously has a lot of strong points, and a lot of fans, but if these apps can't talk to each other and transfer vital data like IPTC info, Labels and Ratings, then I don't see how they can be incorporated into a solid workflow.

Andrew

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 11:07:30 AM »
Andrew,

Is anyone else using PM successfully with Capture One? These two applications have been around for awhile and are both incredibly popular, so I find it hard to believe that they don't work together.  ???

Anybody have any advice about using PM with C1? Although, I just read that PM's ranking system isn't compatible with Bridge or iView, so considering all these incompatibilities I don't think I would buy it anyway. It obviously has a lot of strong points, and a lot of fans, but if these apps can't talk to each other and transfer vital data like IPTC info, Labels and Ratings, then I don't see how they can be incorporated into a solid workflow.

If C1 is incompatible with embedded IPTC and/or XMP data in RAW files then just configure Photo Mechanic to use XMP sidecar files.  If C1 is not compatible with XMP sidecar files then PhaseOne needs to fix their software.  It sounds like C1 has some naive parsing code in their software.  They are likely expecting certain values to be located at explicit offsets and are not parsing the files properly, thus making them incompatible with RAW files with embedded metadata.

Our Color Class system is not a 5-star rating system.  Bridge has a label system but it allows every image to have its own label name and requires the user to be consistent.  iView Media Pro does have a color label system, but it repurposes the IPTC Urgency field which we don't really approve of.  Photo Mechanic version 4.5 (in development) has an additional 5-star rating system that is fully compatible with Bridge and any other software in the world that uses XMP metadata.

Whether or not C1 will work with 5-star ratings found in XMP data is unknown to me since I do not own a copy of their software.  I hope that they will support XMP since it is rapidly becoming an industry standard way of maintaining metadata for images and other types of files.

If you want to try using XMP sidecar files and want to test their usability in C1, then let me know.  I'd be happy to help you get things configured properly.

-Kirk

Offline arossphoto

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 06:22:59 AM »
Photo Mechanic version 4.5 (in development) has an additional 5-star rating system that is fully compatible with Bridge and any other software in the world that uses XMP metadata.

Whether or not C1 will work with 5-star ratings found in XMP data is unknown to me since I do not own a copy of their software.  I hope that they will support XMP since it is rapidly becoming an industry standard way of maintaining metadata for images and other types of files.

-Kirk

Thanks for the clarifications Kirk. From what I can tell C1 does not support XMP. I added some IPTC data to RAW files in Bridge, but C1 did not display any of that info in their IPTC tracker.

Any idea when 4.5 will be released?

Cheers,

Andrew 


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 06:56:09 AM »
Photo Mechanic version 4.5 (in development) has an additional 5-star rating system that is fully compatible with Bridge and any other software in the world that uses XMP metadata.

Whether or not C1 will work with 5-star ratings found in XMP data is unknown to me since I do not own a copy of their software.  I hope that they will support XMP since it is rapidly becoming an industry standard way of maintaining metadata for images and other types of files.

Thanks for the clarifications Kirk. From what I can tell C1 does not support XMP. I added some IPTC data to RAW files in Bridge, but C1 did not display any of that info in their IPTC tracker.

My guess is that C1 does not expect IPTC or XMP to be embedded in RAW files, and since it does not support XMP then it would not see IPTC there either.

I'd say if you want to use C1 use it as early as possible in your workflow just after Ingest and then do your captioning on the files you create with C1.

Quote from: arossphoto
Any idea when 4.5 will be released?

The plan is to have it out before year's end...

-Kirk

Offline arossphoto

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 09:46:46 AM »
According to this Press Release from Phase One , xmp support will be in version 4.

Quote
Phase One realizes the need for deeper integration between Capture One 4 and other
workflows such as iView® MediaPro, Adobe®’s Lightroom and Apple®’s Aperture. Therefore,
Capture One 4 will support Adobe DNG and XMP formats.

Phase One will launch Capture One 4 LE in the beginning of 2007 and Capture One 4 PRO will launch at the end of quarter 2, 2007.

I hate to have to wait that long, but it's nice to see some standards finally being implemented in all these different apps. Because right now it's a royal pain the butt and I'm going crazy here trying put together the necessary components of a proper DAM oriented workflow.

Cheers,

Andrew

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Color Management Issues in 4.4.3.2
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2006, 10:15:06 AM »
According to this Press Release from Phase One , xmp support will be in version 4.

Quote
Phase One realizes the need for deeper integration between Capture One 4 and other
workflows such as iView® MediaPro, Adobe®’s Lightroom and Apple®’s Aperture. Therefore,
Capture One 4 will support Adobe DNG and XMP formats.

Phase One will launch Capture One 4 LE in the beginning of 2007 and Capture One 4 PRO will launch at the end of quarter 2, 2007.

That's good to hear.

-Kirk