Author Topic: Searching External Drives  (Read 5236 times)

Offline mbbphoto

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Searching External Drives
« on: March 13, 2011, 08:33:28 PM »
On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.
Marc
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2011, 09:17:15 PM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 07:46:09 AM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

My client is having the same issue on her laptop...

Thanks as always

Marc
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 08:46:32 AM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

Do your NEFs have embedded metadata or are you using XMP sidecar files?  Are you searching for data that would only be found in the metadata?

Would you be willing to run a logging version so I can find out what's going on?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 09:04:15 AM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

Do your NEFs have embedded metadata or are you using XMP sidecar files?  Are you searching for data that would only be found in the metadata?

Would you be willing to run a logging version so I can find out what's going on?

Thanks,

-Kirk


XMP side cars
Data would only be found in metadata.
Absolutely happy to run a logging version.
Marc
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 09:19:33 AM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

Do your NEFs have embedded metadata or are you using XMP sidecar files?  Are you searching for data that would only be found in the metadata?

Would you be willing to run a logging version so I can find out what's going on?

XMP side cars
Data would only be found in metadata.
Absolutely happy to run a logging version.

Spotlight doesn't associate XMP sidecar files with images.  Actually I'm not sure Spotlight even indexes XMP files at all.  Are you certain that if you use Spotlight (from the Finder) to search for data contained in the XMP sidecar files it shows you NEF files as hits?  If so, that's news to me.

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 01:14:31 PM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

Do your NEFs have embedded metadata or are you using XMP sidecar files?  Are you searching for data that would only be found in the metadata?

Would you be willing to run a logging version so I can find out what's going on?

XMP side cars
Data would only be found in metadata.
Absolutely happy to run a logging version.

Spotlight doesn't associate XMP sidecar files with images.  Actually I'm not sure Spotlight even indexes XMP files at all.  Are you certain that if you use Spotlight (from the Finder) to search for data contained in the XMP sidecar files it shows you NEF files as hits?  If so, that's news to me.

-Kirk


You are of course right.
Spotlight shows the XMPs....
It definitely shows the XMPs , not the NEFs
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 03:07:12 PM »
Marc,

On three different computers running PM 4.6.6 and 4.6.7 , Mac OS 10.6.6 Quick search does not return any images if I select 'only this contact sheet'
A few do show up if I do not select 'only this contact sheet'.
If I use finder spotlight they all show up almost immediately.

Does the contact sheet that you're limiting your search to have a lot of images in it?  What kind of images are you working with?  What are your search terms?

Have you tried the Search panel?  Does it return similar results?

-Kirk



Nikon NEF files with contact sheets of 2,000+ images. MacOS10.6.6. PM 4.6.7b and 4.6.4, We have tried using 3 different intel MacBook Pros, 1 iMac 27 intel, 4-12 gigs ram

Using the Find command in PM we get 308 results for a specific name in a specific folder. (Correct!)
Using Mac Spotlight in Mac Finder for the same folder we get the same 308.

Using PM quick search looking for the same name in the whole drive we only get 200 for the entire drive (we know there are a couple of thousand).
If we use PM quick search specific to the same folder (contact sheet items only) we get nothing
Search also returns nothing when its specific to a location but brings up a couple of hundred when I search the whole computer using two names and "any" as a search controller.

Do your NEFs have embedded metadata or are you using XMP sidecar files?  Are you searching for data that would only be found in the metadata?

Would you be willing to run a logging version so I can find out what's going on?

XMP side cars
Data would only be found in metadata.
Absolutely happy to run a logging version.

Spotlight doesn't associate XMP sidecar files with images.  Actually I'm not sure Spotlight even indexes XMP files at all.  Are you certain that if you use Spotlight (from the Finder) to search for data contained in the XMP sidecar files it shows you NEF files as hits?  If so, that's news to me.

You are of course right.
Spotlight shows the XMPs....
It definitely shows the XMPs , not the NEFs

OK, well there isn't much I can do about the issue you've reported.  I tell Spotlight to search for images and it ignores the metadata in 'attached' XMP sidecar files.

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 10:46:41 PM »


OK, well there isn't much I can do about the issue you've reported.  I tell Spotlight to search for images and it ignores the metadata in 'attached' XMP sidecar files.

-Kirk

[/quote]

I'm not sure you understand me (I'm not a very clear writer).
Spotlight is not ignoring the xmp files, it finds all the XMP files no problem if I use it in the mac finder.
Quicksearch doesn't seem to find them.

Are you saying that for PM to show them using quicksearch I would have to embed the metadata in the RAW file?

I definitely haven't always had this issue...there has to be a workaround..

Marc


Marc
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 06:45:52 AM »
Marc,

I'm not sure you understand me (I'm not a very clear writer).
Spotlight is not ignoring the xmp files, it finds all the XMP files no problem if I use it in the mac finder.
Quicksearch doesn't seem to find them.

Are you saying that for PM to show them using quicksearch I would have to embed the metadata in the RAW file?

I definitely haven't always had this issue...there has to be a workaround..

Embedding the XMP metadata may work well in getting Spotlight searches to work better in PM, but depending on how you use your RAW files (i.e. if you use Adobe products to adjust and develop RAW files) then you may not want to do this, nor would I suggest that you do so in order to work around this issue.

What PM would have to do is (now that Spotlight has begun indexing XMP sidecar files where previously it didn't) allow results to be returned that match up XMP sidecar files as well as images and when XMP sidecar files are returned, do its own scanning for possible RAW file matches, meaning taking the base name (dropping the .XMP) and then checking for every possible RAW filename extension to see if it exists and then when one matches, substitute that name as a result.

PM currently doesn't do this and I'm not sure we can spare the engineering effort with all of the work we're doing on our own cataloging solution.  I asked Apple to associate XMP sidecar files with RAW files over five years ago at one of their developer conferences.  They didn't seem to care then and it's obvious that while they've made some strides (at least they now index XMP sidecar files which was news to me) they still don't get it and expect all developers to perform their own searching in addition to Spotlight searching.  Spotlight indexes so few fields of metadata as to be fairly useless for complex searches anyway.  The indexing and searching we've got working now in development of PM's cataloging far surpasses anything Spotlight will likely ever be able to do with images.

So, I don't have a workaround for you, but I'll discuss with the team whether we can come up with an interim solution for the Spotlight search in the 4.6.7 update.

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 08:55:10 AM »
Totally makes sense, many thanks.
It would be extremely useful to be able to search RAW files....
Many thanks
Marc
Marc

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 10:53:05 AM »
Marc,

Totally makes sense, many thanks.
It would be extremely useful to be able to search RAW files....

Agreed! That's why we're writing our own cataloging solution which will have none of the issues of the Spotlight search.

I have looked further into what Spotlight does for XMP files.  It indexes them, but only in the most generic brute-force way.  For instance you're just as likely to get a hit on an XMP sidecar file if you search for an XMP tag like 'dc:description' as you are for the words you put in the Caption field.  Moreover, there isn't a UTI (uniform type identifier) assigned to XMP sidecar files, so PM would have to use something much more generic like 'public.data' which would include a lot more than XMP sidecar files, resulting in clogging up the search results and forcing PM to do a lot of validation.

I don't think a workable solution is available.

-Kirk

Offline mbbphoto

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Re: Searching External Drives
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 12:23:44 PM »
Marc,

Totally makes sense, many thanks.
It would be extremely useful to be able to search RAW files....

Agreed! That's why we're writing our own cataloging solution which will have none of the issues of the Spotlight search.

I have looked further into what Spotlight does for XMP files.  It indexes them, but only in the most generic brute-force way.  For instance you're just as likely to get a hit on an XMP sidecar file if you search for an XMP tag like 'dc:description' as you are for the words you put in the Caption field.  Moreover, there isn't a UTI (uniform type identifier) assigned to XMP sidecar files, so PM would have to use something much more generic like 'public.data' which would include a lot more than XMP sidecar files, resulting in clogging up the search results and forcing PM to do a lot of validation.

I don't think a workable solution is available.

-Kirk


Thanks so much for looking into it!
(Now get back to work on the catalog please....;-)
Marc