Author Topic: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment  (Read 35577 times)

Offline ostonica

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Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« on: May 09, 2012, 03:54:28 PM »
I just wanted to say what a huge disappointment it was to hear of yet another delay in the Catalog Software. I've been waiting for this for over 3 years now since I first read that it was under development, and encouraged by the news that it was undergoing beta tests at a large custoper (AP?).

The last thing I need at this point is a Catalog to which even more editing addons can be attached. What I really need now is something to keep track of my images. It's so disappointing to have to wait until 2013.

I don't suppose you could reconsider because this is presumabley at the request of a major customer. But I would plead with you to let us use what you have now, after 3 or more years of development and not start all over again with a different design. 

PLEASE

Jim Swift

Offline Paul Skelcher

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 04:40:20 PM »
Agree wholeheartedly Jim.

I too have delayed the time and energy investment in other DAM software waiting for Camera Bits promised Catalog solution.
Don't want to wait any longer so I'll be going elsewhere.

Also not happy with the need for add-ons that will almost certainly over-complicate and detract from the straight forward functionality necessary for simple intuitive use.  Editing software would be better released after the cataloging program.

Paul




Offline ron_hiner

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 08:21:24 PM »
Sadly, I'm in agreement here. 

I've been waiting for years for the CB catalog.   I don't need image editing in a catalog program, and it kills me that (if I understand correctly) that that is why the release is delayed (again).  There are some truly outstanding image editors already out there.  Adobe Photoshop is just one of them.     I'll bet my last nickel that CB can't produce a better image editor on a first release than Photoshop's current release.  Photoshop does what we need it to do, and there is an infinate supply of training tutorials, videos, and books available to bring people up to speed.   

There is no reason in the world, in my book, that catalog software should even have image editing capabilities.   Yet, my understanding is that  this is precisely what is holding up the release.   It's a pity.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 08:33:52 PM »
Sadly, I'm in agreement here. 

I've been waiting for years for the CB catalog.   I don't need image editing in a catalog program, and it kills me that (if I understand correctly) that that is why the release is delayed (again).  There are some truly outstanding image editors already out there.  Adobe Photoshop is just one of them.     I'll bet my last nickel that CB can't produce a better image editor on a first release than Photoshop's current release.  Photoshop does what we need it to do, and there is an infinate supply of training tutorials, videos, and books available to bring people up to speed.   

There is no reason in the world, in my book, that catalog software should even have image editing capabilities.   Yet, my understanding is that  this is precisely what is holding up the release.   It's a pity.

Nowhere did Dennis' Announcement say that we were taking on the Image Pixel Editing space.  We're not.  He was speaking to greater editorial decision making that Photo Mechanic already does (rating, classification, metadata entry, selection and culling).

We're sorry if that wasn't more clear.

-Kirk

Offline mklass

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 09:07:02 PM »
Also, disappointed. 4.6.9 beta is done in 6 days. Please finish it, get V5 out quickly, stop screwing around with those, and finish the Catalog program.

This is taking far too long.

Mick

Offline michael33

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 12:38:21 AM »
Camerabits has a very good reputation. Their software runs rock solid an stable. The core functionality is given with Photomechanic (photo editing in the sense of download, order, cull, sort, publish, e.g. a digital hub for pictures).
In my opinion the cataloge is an extension of PM´s program function (the cataloge feature).

I highly appreciate that Camerabits finally seperated the release of PM5 and the cataloge program. PM still holds a little quirk here and there, which I hope to be fixed with the next releases. The wishlist for PM´s features is also rather long (according to this forum). Why delay everything just because the cataloge is not done? From what has been published so far, PM Cataloge will hold the full functionality of PM and adds the cataloge to it. To me that sounds like the development is modular: PM can further mature and by the time the Cataloge is ready, it will be wedded to PM?!
 
With an attractive cross grade option from PM5 -> PM5 Cataloge, there should not be any financial disadvantage to those interested in the cataloge.

Taken from what is published, the cataloge will be a full blown solution (for example multi-user support).
I only can imagine, that this is a highly complex and sensitive topic.
Adobe recently showed with LR4, what can happen if you rush out software too soon (though the problems there had nothing to do with the database, still...). I have no doubt, that a buggy cataloge software would do severe harm on Camerabit´s reputation and would be of no use to its users.

Seriously, I have enough of being an involuntarily beta tester and I appreciate Camerabit´s courage to stand up and say "We are not done yet!"

Best regards
Michael
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 12:48:10 AM by michael33 »

Offline platti

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 03:18:07 AM »
Hi,
I'm a convinced user of PM since quite a lot of time.
What I'm reading now about version 5 and the catalog part reminds me very, very slightly of the situation of Bibble ... but I hope, everything will be done fine.
greets from a hill
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Offline mvalent

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 03:24:10 AM »
For me, Camera bits lost total credit on this. No posting of snapshots or videos... who can believe Camera bits really started the development of this cataloging system ?
The informations given about the features are close to nil and are a real insult to customers. The first rule about make business is communicating well and Camera bits had the worst communicating policy possible on this subject. I don't have any hope for this to change in the future.
Time to find an alternative... if catalog feature is coming, what makes you think it will fit your needs and your budget ? It may be a big deception AGAIN.

Offline mklass

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 07:01:31 AM »
For me, Camera bits lost total credit on this. No posting of snapshots or videos... who can believe Camera bits really started the development of this cataloging system ?
The informations given about the features are close to nil and are a real insult to customers. The first rule about make business is communicating well and Camera bits had the worst communicating policy possible on this subject. I don't have any hope for this to change in the future.
Time to find an alternative... if catalog feature is coming, what makes you think it will fit your needs and your budget ? It may be a big deception AGAIN.

I have no doubt Camera Bits is developing a Catalog app, and I agree that the communication on this topic has been very frustrating. Generally, communication on this forum from the company has been excellent and complete, except on relating the  status of the catalog program.

I appreciate that the company produces well designed, functioning software, and do not want to see a buggy initial release. But, frankly, PM 4.6.x works very well and performs for 99% of my needs. V5 may or may not have enough new functionality to be worth it. However, it seems to me the focus should be almost entirely on developing the Catalog program as Camera Bits seems to be staking much of it's reputation and future on this. I'd rather see that than V5 without the catalog any day.

Mick

Offline JAS Photo

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 07:29:23 AM »
Come on guys - to delay Catalog & V5 is one thing - BUT to Delay catalog a few weeks after it was promised is really unacceptable. I believe it was promised for the first quarter, then end of q1, then shortly - NOW.....!!! That's just real bad communication & planning. The term Vaporware come to mind!
Disappointment just dosn't cover it!!!
Joe Sorrentino
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http://www.JASPhoto.com

Offline ron_hiner

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 07:57:14 PM »
Nowhere did Dennis' Announcement say that we were taking on the Image Pixel Editing space.  We're not.  He was speaking to greater editorial decision making that Photo Mechanic already does (rating, classification, metadata entry, selection and culling).

We're sorry if that wasn't more clear.

-Kirk

Well, there is this sentence here from Dennis....
"As the development of the Catalog feature progressed, we decided to pursue a related avenue of innovation that provides for a suite of photo editing solutions."

If Dennis was talking about a new app that does rating, classification, metadata entry, selection and culling, PM already does that.  Brilliantly. 

It has been my deepest hope that CameraBits did not follow Adobe, Apple, Phase One, and numerous others,  in developing apps that combine photo editing with photo cataloging.  I would seem to be the case you are going that direction.   

If you are delaying the release of the new product so that it can have features that PM already has, then you've missed the boat.   I don't need another app for that.  I want an app that can track results of what was done in PM, so I can search for them later.    Pretty simple really.  All the cataloging app has to do is be able load the PM metadata into a database so that I can search on that data.   It should provide the results in a PM-style contact sheet, with right-clicks to the editor of my choice.  Period.  that's all it needs to do.

You have been saying for years that the catalog is on the way.    The latest announcement, along with your clarification, is basically this:  "we need another half a year or so because we want want to add editing features kinda like PM." 

I made the decision last June to commit  myself to cataloging my photos by the end of the year.   I've carefully been adding lots of metadata in PM towards that goal, but not sure where the final output was going to be.   In October's announcement, it sounded like you were had something to show.  I didn't see it.   But my love and loyalty for PM gave me a reason to delay commitment to a CB competitor.

Every single day you delay this release, some of your potential customers lock into long-term deals with your competition.   

If you are financially unable to commit to the resources necessary to put a new product out, then say so.  Your loyal customers won't hate you for that.   But endlessly stringing them along is no way to treat your most loyal and vocal customers. 

Your market of prospects shrinks every time your competitors make a sale.   Show something.   Prove that you even have something that is truly different than the competition.   Or not.


Ron

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 11:13:35 PM »
Ron,

Nowhere did Dennis' Announcement say that we were taking on the Image Pixel Editing space.  We're not.  He was speaking to greater editorial decision making that Photo Mechanic already does (rating, classification, metadata entry, selection and culling).

We're sorry if that wasn't more clear.

Well, there is this sentence here from Dennis....
"As the development of the Catalog feature progressed, we decided to pursue a related avenue of innovation that provides for a suite of photo editing solutions."

If Dennis was talking about a new app that does rating, classification, metadata entry, selection and culling, PM already does that.  Brilliantly. 

It has been my deepest hope that CameraBits did not follow Adobe, Apple, Phase One, and numerous others,  in developing apps that combine photo editing with photo cataloging.  I would seem to be the case you are going that direction.

No.  We're not going in that direction.  It is in an editorial direction.  Not pixel editing like Photoshop or any other pixel editing application.  We have no plans to do what those other apps do.

Quote from: ron_hiner
Every single day you delay this release, some of your potential customers lock into long-term deals with your competition.

That important detail is not lost on us.  We're well aware.

Quote from: ron_hiner
If you are financially unable to commit to the resources necessary to put a new product out, then say so.  Your loyal customers won't hate you for that.

We do not have the financial nor the engineering resources to compete with our competition though we do it anyway.  I'm sorry it's taking longer than we anticipated.

-Kirk

Offline chardinej

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 06:56:41 AM »
Well this is a big blow. I share the same sentiments as others here. Well said Ron by the way.

Kirk- I'm not trying to be funny here but I speak English yet I do not understand what you mean by "It is in an editorial direction". Please explain in simple language what this sentence means in relation to PM and the particular issue of pixel editing.
John

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Offline Woodie

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 04:58:24 PM »
Well this is a big blow. I share the same sentiments as others here. Well said Ron by the way.

Kirk- I'm not trying to be funny here but I speak English yet I do not understand what you mean by "It is in an editorial direction". Please explain in simple language what this sentence means in relation to PM and the particular issue of pixel editing.

Count me as another disappointed user or should I say "waiter."  I'm with chardinej, what does this mean in plain English? Sounds like "political speak."

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Catalog News - A Huge Disappointment
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2012, 12:50:24 AM »
I'm not an English native but to me “editorial” sounds like PM is going to provide functionality for the editor of e.g., a magazine (not that I fully understand what this would entail, but still). I'm sure Kirk will correct me on this one though if I am mistaken ;)
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