Author Topic: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info  (Read 21869 times)

Offline RichB

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« on: October 23, 2006, 08:47:35 AM »
I add IPTC information in PM and open the file with NX 1.0.1.  It reads the IPTC information.  However, once I save the file in NX, the information is no longer present.  When I look at the file with a hex viewer, I cannot find what I typed in.

I contacted Nikon tech support an got a totally unsympathetic "techie".  He said that NX doesn't support third party software.  I told him that Photoshop and Capture 4.4 doesn't have the problem and, now that I think about it, I don't think NX 1.00 had the problem either.  He suggested I type in IPTC info via NX.  (I was livid.)

I thought I would bounce it off of you, since I have utmost respect for you.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rich

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24074
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 10:14:57 AM »
Rich,

I add IPTC information in PM and open the file with NX 1.0.1.  It reads the IPTC information.  However, once I save the file in NX, the information is no longer present.  When I look at the file with a hex viewer, I cannot find what I typed in.

I contacted Nikon tech support an got a totally unsympathetic "techie".  He said that NX doesn't support third party software.  I told him that Photoshop and Capture 4.4 doesn't have the problem and, now that I think about it, I don't think NX 1.00 had the problem either.  He suggested I type in IPTC info via NX.  (I was livid.)

I thought I would bounce it off of you, since I have utmost respect for you.  Any ideas?

It's a bug in Capture NX.  We reported the problem to Nikon a few months ago.  The only real solution at this point is to use the Update IPTC/XMP tool to copy the IPTC/XMP from your NEFs to your generated JPEGs.  In order to do this, your generated JPEGs must have the same name as your NEF files (not counting the filename extension.)  Your NEFs and JPEGs then either need to be in the same folder, or in different folders but opened together into a single Contact Sheet.  You need to be viewing in RAW+JPEG mode.  Then you can select them all and update the JPEGs from the NEFs using the the Update IPTC/XMP tool (found on the Tools menu.)

I think it is very short-sighted for that tech guy to say that third-party software is not supported since Capture NX is in no way a one-stop solution for a Photographer's entire workflow.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline RichB

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 12:34:56 PM »
Kirk,

Thanks for the suggestion on the easiest way to reinstate the IPTC info in the JPGs (and NEFs).   Do you have a suggestion for the easiest way of reinstating the IPTC info in TIFs?  I am editing a few files with Photoshop and save them as TIFs.

I agree about the Nikon techie's attitude.  After reading your response, I read on the Nikonian forum that others have contacted Nikon about this issue and were apologized to for having to find the bug themselves.  The Nikon contact I talked to wasn't professional enough to inquire whether it was a known bug.  Working with you with your class exaggerates how badly I was treated at Nikon.  (For the record, my only other contact with Nikon was pleasant.)

Thanks, as always!

Rich

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24074
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2006, 12:44:21 PM »
Rich,

Thanks for the suggestion on the easiest way to reinstate the IPTC info in the JPGs (and NEFs).   Do you have a suggestion for the easiest way of reinstating the IPTC info in TIFs?  I am editing a few files with Photoshop and save them as TIFs.

We currently have no way to do that in a batch.  You can copy and paste IPTC records manually, but if you have a lot of files, this would get tedious really fast.

Quote from: RichB
I agree about the Nikon techie's attitude.  After reading your response, I read on the Nikonian forum that others have contacted Nikon about this issue and were apologized to for having to find the bug themselves.  The Nikon contact I talked to wasn't professional enough to inquire whether it was a known bug.  Working with you with your class exaggerates how badly I was treated at Nikon.  (For the record, my only other contact with Nikon was pleasant.)

Thanks!

-Kirk

Offline dogear

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2006, 04:06:15 PM »
It did the same thing in NX 1.0. My solution to this inexcusable behavior was to not use the software. I gave it every chance, but that ridiculous UI (which I was willing to live with) combined with this whopper of a bug (or is it a bug?) made the decision easy.

Offline dennis

  • President
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2006, 04:53:09 PM »
I contacted Nikon tech support an got a totally unsympathetic "techie".  He said that NX doesn't support third party software.  I told him that Photoshop and Capture 4.4 doesn't have the problem and, now that I think about it, I don't think NX 1.00 had the problem either.  He suggested I type in IPTC info via NX.  (I was livid.)

I'm not sure about NX 1.00, but 1.01 will show the IPTC info that Photo Mechanic embeds when opening a NEF file, but it doesn't write this IPTC info into a saved JPEG.  So I'm not sure whether or not a manual "edit" on top of the IPTC info that NX 1.01 shows would cause NX 1.01 to write this info out into a JPEG (i.e. it considers the data "dirty" in programmer-ease).

Capture NX does, however, write the IPTC Caption and Byline fields into the Exif/TIFF tags for "image description" and "author" respectively.  Some applications will show this info as "IPTC" (e.g. Photoshop) even though it isn't coming from an IPTC record.  Photo Mechanic, however, only looks for an IPTC record and therefore will not show these Exif/TIFF fields.  In general, these TIFF tags aren't editable (thank you TIFF).

Not sure what to say about a comment that "NX doesn't support third party software".  Perhaps this could be stated more directly as "NX intentionally doesn't support third party software" (in the case of its extra-proprietary format), or as "NX unintentionally supports third party software (by virtue of it creating a relatively high quality full resolution JPEG preview for all NX edits to NEFs).

But I tried opening a NEF straight from my D200 into NX 1.01 and manually edited IPTC info.  Neither the NEF or the JPEG saved by NX contains IPTC info.  So I'd call this a bug and not lack of "support for third party software".

UPDATE: apparently the original NEF file I added this info to DOES have the IPTC info, but not any files created by a Save As in NX.

--dennis
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 04:59:25 PM by dennis »

Offline dogear

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2006, 06:28:12 PM »
UPDATE: apparently the original NEF file I added this info to DOES have the IPTC info, but not any files created by a Save As in NX.

--dennis


All I know is I enter IPTC via PM, open in NX, edit and save the changes. When I check back in PM that data has done R-U-N-N-O-F-T. I've heard about a convenient workaround - just ensure the NX metadata panel is open whenever you save and the IPTC won't be stripped. I never gave that one a go. Can't imagine why. Maybe it's because the NX UI is so good at CLOSING the panels.

Offline dennis

  • President
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2006, 06:40:16 PM »
I've heard about a convenient workaround - just ensure the NX metadata panel is open whenever you save and the IPTC won't be stripped. I never gave that one a go. Can't imagine why. Maybe it's because the NX UI is so good at CLOSING the panels.

Hence the "art" of QC...

--dennis

Offline dogear

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 08:52:59 PM »

>Hence the "art" of QC...<

Must be abstract "art" - stepping outside the box and what-not. Blazing a trail ... to nowhere.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 08:57:09 PM by dogear »

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24074
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 09:38:51 PM »

>Hence the "art" of QC...<

Must be abstract "art" - stepping outside the box and what-not. Blazing a trail ... to nowhere.

Ok, Ok, Ok, guys.  Let's give Nikon the benefit of the doubt.  Their application is basically brand new after all and nobody is perfect.

It would be helpful if Nikon Capture NX users would tell Nikon about the problems they are having with NX and IPTC handling.  If they hear enough voices, I am sure that they will correct the problems in the next update or two...

-Kirk

Offline jrjohnson

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2006, 10:52:45 AM »

All.  I am just now giving PM a try with trial download, and have discovered this problem with NX eliminating IPTC data when edits in NX are saved.  Here is a funny thing...  I was at a Nikon School last weekend on Ditigal Workflow.  The guys presenting for Nikon were from Blue Pixel.  They introduced the idea to me (and everyone else) of incorporating PM in workflow, ie Camera ->PM -> CaptureNX ->Iview (for perminent archiving).  A good solution for getting IPTC data in, easily, right after capture, was very appealing to me.  They made no mention that NX would throw the data away, and I'm not sure they even know about this problem (maybe they don't really use NX)...  By the way, before I found this thread here, I submitted the problem to Nikon Support as well, and got the same answer - ie NX does not support other products and I should just enter IPTC data in NX.  How ridiculous...  I want to use PM, but one of the main reasons I'm interested is in getting my metadata in to workflow early, while still doing RAW processing in NX, and then shipping the images off to Iview for archiving (and hopefully still having my metadata travel along during the entire process). 

I don't really understand the work around recommended in the thread (I'm still pretty new to all this), so Kirk, can I trouble you for a bit more step by step for this?  I'm referring to the answer  you posted:

"It's a bug in Capture NX.  We reported the problem to Nikon a few months ago.  The only real solution at this point is to use the Update IPTC/XMP tool to copy the IPTC/XMP from your NEFs to your generated JPEGs.  In order to do this, your generated JPEGs must have the same name as your NEF files (not counting the filename extension.)  Your NEFs and JPEGs then either need to be in the same folder, or in different folders but opened together into a single Contact Sheet.  You need to be viewing in RAW+JPEG mode.  Then you can select them all and update the JPEGs from the NEFs using the the Update IPTC/XMP tool (found on the Tools menu.)"

What I want to do is keep files in .NEF all through process to archive.  If I make JPGS, it usually when I make selects from Iview and then I go back to NX to JPEG the files...

Thanks for any information - and pressure on Nikon to fix this.

John

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24074
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2006, 01:58:48 PM »
John,


All.  I am just now giving PM a try with trial download, and have discovered this problem with NX eliminating IPTC data when edits in NX are saved.  Here is a funny thing...  I was at a Nikon School last weekend on Ditigal Workflow.  The guys presenting for Nikon were from Blue Pixel.  They introduced the idea to me (and everyone else) of incorporating PM in workflow, ie Camera ->PM -> CaptureNX ->Iview (for perminent archiving).  A good solution for getting IPTC data in, easily, right after capture, was very appealing to me.  They made no mention that NX would throw the data away, and I'm not sure they even know about this problem (maybe they don't really use NX)...  By the way, before I found this thread here, I submitted the problem to Nikon Support as well, and got the same answer - ie NX does not support other products and I should just enter IPTC data in NX.  How ridiculous...  I want to use PM, but one of the main reasons I'm interested is in getting my metadata in to workflow early, while still doing RAW processing in NX, and then shipping the images off to Iview for archiving (and hopefully still having my metadata travel along during the entire process). 

I don't really understand the work around recommended in the thread (I'm still pretty new to all this), so Kirk, can I trouble you for a bit more step by step for this?  I'm referring to the answer  you posted:

"It's a bug in Capture NX.  We reported the problem to Nikon a few months ago.  The only real solution at this point is to use the Update IPTC/XMP tool to copy the IPTC/XMP from your NEFs to your generated JPEGs.  In order to do this, your generated JPEGs must have the same name as your NEF files (not counting the filename extension.)  Your NEFs and JPEGs then either need to be in the same folder, or in different folders but opened together into a single Contact Sheet.  You need to be viewing in RAW+JPEG mode.  Then you can select them all and update the JPEGs from the NEFs using the the Update IPTC/XMP tool (found on the Tools menu.)"

What I want to do is keep files in .NEF all through process to archive.  If I make JPGS, it usually when I make selects from Iview and then I go back to NX to JPEG the files...

Thanks for any information - and pressure on Nikon to fix this.

If you switch to using external XMP sidecar files, you won't lose your metadata.  In the IPTC/XMP tab of the Preferences dialog, turn off the two checkboxes that embed IPTC and XMP into TIFF-based RAW files.  The popup menu will automatically change to the correct setting and will disable itself.  You will now have an extra file for each NEF file that you process in PM, but it is very unlikely that your metadata will be compromised by the use of Capture NX.

Let me know if you need further assistance.

-Kirk

Offline drjay32

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
    • Luminescence of Nature Photograpy
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2006, 08:14:41 PM »
Found a small workaround-

In the IPTC window in Capture NX, just add a character or a blank space to a field so that the "Apply" button is activated.  Click Apply, and then the IPTC data are saved properly.

And yes, I can assure you, Nikon knows about this issue.  I have told their developers about the issue personally.

-Jason
Jason P. Odell
Photographer and author in Colorado, USA
www.luminescentphoto.com

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24074
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2006, 09:42:46 PM »
Jason,

Found a small workaround-

In the IPTC window in Capture NX, just add a character or a blank space to a field so that the "Apply" button is activated.  Click Apply, and then the IPTC data are saved properly.

And yes, I can assure you, Nikon knows about this issue.  I have told their developers about the issue personally.

Thanks for posting this.

Have you heard from the developers of Capture NX when they will fix this issue?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline RobertE

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Capture NX 1.0.1 deletes IPTC info
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2006, 02:52:58 AM »
Hi Kirk,

I spoke to the people at NIK Software before and after Nikon Capture NX was released. The developers are aware that both NX and the NEF format have major deficiencies regarding IPTC. It appears for v1.x their hands are tied.

I'll look at Nikon Capture NX again when v2 is released.