Author Topic: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem  (Read 22043 times)

Offline Juerg

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Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« on: August 21, 2012, 10:40:16 PM »
Kirk,

I know there was somewhere explained that the PM5 corp feature is now compatible with Adobe Applications. But now I run into a problem as it messes up my workflow.

After a shoot I apply many times crops in PM to NEF files on the fast, save them as small JPEGs and send them out for review with the crop applied.

After the final selection by the customer I usually work then on the NEF's in Capture NX, save them as a TIFF, and open it in CS5 for final edit and, if necessary, crop. Up to now, NEF files that had a crop in PM applied did save TIFF's without crops and it opened the TIFF from within PM normally in CS.

New in V5, if I save a NEF that has a crop applied from within Capture NX, the crop is now also visible in PM for the TIFF file. So far so good.

BUT if I now open the TIFF file with this crop from within PM in Photoshop, it does not open in Photoshop, but it opens in ACR and the crop is applied. I do not want to have that as I will loose many pixels that I may need to work in Photoshop (for example distortion control). The initial crop that I did apply to the NEF file may not be valid for the TIFF.

I need to be able to open the TIFF files in CS5 (not ACR) without the PM crop applied, but also without having to first remove the crop mask in PM from that said TIFF file. At the very least I need to be able to choose whether it should not be applied (open in Photoshop directly), or applied (open in ACR). Best on a picture to picture base, but at least on a global base (by means of a preference setting). But I didn't see a way to do that.

Thanks,
Juerg


Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 10:46:30 PM »
Juerg,

I need to be able to open the TIFF files in CS5 (not ACR) without the PM crop applied, but also without having to first remove the crop mask in PM from that said TIFF file. At the very least I need to be able to choose whether it should not be applied (open in Photoshop directly), or applied (open in ACR). Best on a picture to picture base, but at least on a global base (by means of a preference setting). But I didn't see a way to do that.

Just cancel the crop in ACR and let it open the file in Photoshop.

-Kirk

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 11:24:55 PM »
Kirk,

Just cancel the crop in ACR and let it open the file in Photoshop.

Thanks. But to be honest that becomes a pain in the but to have first open in ACR (which I don't want), select the crop, delete it, click open ... and THEN I'm able to start with the work.

It especially becomes a pain if you have selected several pics in PM and use "Edit selected files..." ... instead of open them all in no time in PS, each one opens (one after another) in ACR, then you have to do the above clicking around for one file, it open finally in PS ... and then you have to do the same clicking around again in ACR for the next file and so on.

Juerg

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 12:18:22 AM »
Juerg,

Just cancel the crop in ACR and let it open the file in Photoshop.

Thanks. But to be honest that becomes a pain in the but to have first open in ACR (which I don't want), select the crop, delete it, click open ... and THEN I'm able to start with the work.

It especially becomes a pain if you have selected several pics in PM and use "Edit selected files..." ... instead of open them all in no time in PS, each one opens (one after another) in ACR, then you have to do the above clicking around for one file, it open finally in PS ... and then you have to do the same clicking around again in ACR for the next file and so on.

Then remove the crop in PM before you edit in Photoshop.

-Kirk

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 04:45:04 AM »
Then remove the crop in PM before you edit in Photoshop.

Kirk,

I know I can do that. The point is these are again unessesary clicks that are not needed.

On one hand crops now transfer to new versions of a picture saved, which is a good thing. On the other hand it now start to add additional work and steps to a workflow.

Juerg

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 06:47:27 AM »
Then remove the crop in PM before you edit in Photoshop.

I know I can do that. The point is these are again unessesary clicks that are not needed.

On one hand crops now transfer to new versions of a picture saved, which is a good thing. On the other hand it now start to add additional work and steps to a workflow.

Please explain a solution that can be reasonably coded.  We store our crops in the Adobe-compatible format.  This means that PM and Adobe's software read and write the same data.  There is no way for PM to write the data for the crop so that PM only sees it and Adobe's software does not only under certain circumstances (those where it is undesirable by you).

We could add a preference that doesn't preserve crops when saving.  Unfortunately unless it was a preference in the Preferences dialog, the checkbox would have to make its way into multiple features (Save As, Export, Upload).

Do you see where I am coming from?

-Kirk

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 09:24:08 AM »
Kirk,

We could add a preference that doesn't preserve crops when saving.  Unfortunately unless it was a preference in the Preferences dialog, the checkbox would have to make its way into multiple features (Save As, Export, Upload).

Do you see where I am coming from?

Of course I understand you. But you also have to see my point that features are added that are great, but at the same time make the workflow more complicated.

How about an option to have a preference for Adobe compliant or Adobe Non-Comliant crops?????????

There is another problem:
Crops that I apply to NEF files get sometimes screwed up after I opend and editet the NEF file in Capture and safed it again. After a safe the crop shows as following:
- The contact sheet shows the original crop size and orientation, but shifted
- The preview the preview of the same picture shows always a smaller (I assume 4x6) crop in landscape somewhere close to the middle

The from within Capture NX safed TIFF file of the same picture shows the same behaviour.

I attached two screen shot of the same picture, on contact sheet view, one preview.

Regards,
Juerg

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 09:35:53 AM »
Juerg, if I am not mistaken there is an option in photoshop were you can tell it to open tiffs and jpgs in acr when those files have “settings”. Simply turn that option off for tiffs.

This should solve most of your issues I think.

Hope this helps,
Hayo
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Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 09:49:05 AM »
Juerg,

Crops that I apply to NEF files get sometimes screwed up after I opend and editet the NEF file in Capture and safed it again. After a safe the crop shows as following:
- The contact sheet shows the original crop size and orientation, but shifted
- The preview the preview of the same picture shows always a smaller (I assume 4x6) crop in landscape somewhere close to the middle

The from within Capture NX safed TIFF file of the same picture shows the same behaviour.

Can I have one of the images that exhibit this behavior?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 10:35:03 AM »
Kirk,

Yes, can you where to send it.

Juerg

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 12:16:07 PM »
Kirk,

It becomes worse. Almost ervery second NEF file with crop is screwed up after opening, editing, and saving in NX2.

I uploaded the files (7 total):
  • The initial 2files (NEF and TIFF) as shown on the earlier screenshots
    120817_LND2987_JH_AUT_Innsbruck.NEF
    120817_LND2987_JH_AUT_Innsbruck.XMP
    120817_LND2987_JH_AUT_Innsbruck.TIF
  • 2 copies of the same NEF file, the first with the crop applied correctly, the second after opening and saving in NX2 (see also attached screenshots)
    120817_LND2938_JH_AUT_Innsbruck_AfterNX2.NEF
    120817_LND2938_JH_AUT_Innsbruck_AfterNX2.XMP
    120817_LND2938_JH_AUT_Innsbruck_Original.NEF
    120817_LND2938_JH_AUT_Innsbruck_Original.XMP

Hope that helps.

Regards
Juerg

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 12:20:35 PM by archer69 »

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 11:55:11 PM »
Hayo,

Juerg, if I am not mistaken there is an option in photoshop were you can tell it to open tiffs and jpgs in acr when those files have “settings”. Simply turn that option off for tiffs.

Thanks. But I can't find that preference.

I thought it's only a preference in Bridge to be able to select whether a picture opens from Bridge into Photoshop or ACR. Does not affect pictures openend into Photoshop from outside Bridge. That's at least how I understood.

Juerg

Offline Sven

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 05:28:35 AM »
Hi Juerg!

Open Photoshop, go to the Preferences => File Handling
Click on "Camera Raw Preferences"

hth
Sven

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Changed from behind the cam to one who buys images as I started to run. No cam or lens left.

Offline Juerg

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 06:13:59 AM »
Hi Sven,

Open Photoshop, go to the Preferences => File Handling
Click on "Camera Raw Preferences"

Now I feel stuppied ... completely missed the ACR settings tab in the Preference Menu even I used it before  :o

Yes, this does the trick  ;) and TIFF files with V5 crops do now open in Photoshop and not ACR, and without the crop applied 8)

Thanks a lot.

@ Kirk:

Did the files yesterday upload OK?

Juerg
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 06:16:08 AM by archer69 »

Offline judophotos

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Re: Croped NEF -> CS5 TIFF editing problem
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 06:32:45 AM »
Thanks Archer69.
You're not stupid. I just learnt a lot from this.
D