PM overwrites Lightroom Edits after applying IPTC Stationary

[mrpiano]

Hi,

I'm considering PM and am currently trialing it.  I am using it to ingest and cull before bringing photos into LR4 for further editing, and was hoping to use it to round out the meta data and IPTC and LR galleries I've long since completed...

Example:  I have older weddings and event sets of photographs that I have edited in Lightroom 4.  They've been edited using the Lightroom tools, non-destructively, and I've gone and opened the folder containing those images by actually navigating to the folder on my Drobo using the navigator in Photo Mechanic...

The purpose of this was to try to use some of the IPTC stationary templates to update the meta data and IPTC across some of my old shoots using the smart/variable tags available in PM.

So, I open the folder in PM, select a bunch of photos and apply some IPTC stationary to make updates to the meta (I have Lightroom and PM "talking" to each other through XMP sidecar files).

Once I make the changes in PM, I go back INTO Lightroom, right click on the photo and select "Metadata > Read Metadata from File."

It updates the metadata from Photo Mechanic.  It ALSO adds a "reset" item to the Lightroom history, and blows away whatever non-destructive edits I have applied to the photo.  Basically, it takes everything I've done to the photo and brings it back to it's original, right-out-of-the-camera state, which means I have to go in to EVERY file and click on the history to the last version of it that was fully edited.

This is a major issue for me.  I just blew an entire wedding edit back to it's original state, and have to go through over 1000 files and go into the Lightroom history to restore the photo to its last-edited state.

Any way to go from PM, add IPTC and metadata to edited LR catalog without it adding a "Reset" step in the history?

Hopeful!

G

[Kirk Baker]

I'm considering PM and am currently trialing it.  I am using it to ingest and cull before bringing photos into LR4 for further editing, and was hoping to use it to round out the meta data and IPTC and LR galleries I've long since completed...

Example:  I have older weddings and event sets of photographs that I have edited in Lightroom 4.  They've been edited using the Lightroom tools, non-destructively, and I've gone and opened the folder containing those images by actually navigating to the folder on my Drobo using the navigator in Photo Mechanic...

The purpose of this was to try to use some of the IPTC stationary templates to update the meta data and IPTC across some of my old shoots using the smart/variable tags available in PM.

So, I open the folder in PM, select a bunch of photos and apply some IPTC stationary to make updates to the meta (I have Lightroom and PM "talking" to each other through XMP sidecar files).

Once I make the changes in PM, I go back INTO Lightroom, right click on the photo and select "Metadata > Read Metadata from File."

It updates the metadata from Photo Mechanic.  It ALSO adds a "reset" item to the Lightroom history, and blows away whatever non-destructive edits I have applied to the photo.  Basically, it takes everything I've done to the photo and brings it back to it's original, right-out-of-the-camera state, which means I have to go in to EVERY file and click on the history to the last version of it that was fully edited.

This is a major issue for me.  I just blew an entire wedding edit back to it's original state, and have to go through over 1000 files and go into the Lightroom history to restore the photo to its last-edited state.

Any way to go from PM, add IPTC and metadata to edited LR catalog without it adding a "Reset" step in the history?

It sounds like your settings in the IPTC/XMP section of the Photo Mechanic preferences dialog are not set to work with XMP sidecar files properly.  You'll want them to look like the settings I have below.

HTH,

-Kirk


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[mrpiano]

Hi Kirk,

Thanks for the quick reply.  Actually, except for "Allow RAW files to be modified" my settings are exactly the same as yours.  I'm not using RAW files anyway...I also got an email from one of the sales guys at Camera Bits...here's what it says:

"...I have done some testing with this workflow and it seems the problem lies with Lightroom 4. Anytime you read the metadata for an image, LR will reset any existing metadata include any adjustments you might have made. Since LR does not add the crs ( camera raw settings ) to the XMP sidecar file, it just stores that info in it's catalog for that image.

  If you take the same raw files and use Photoshop CS5 for the adjustments, the XMP sidecar file will get updated with the new crs adjustments.  These file can then be re-captioned in Photo Mechanic without affecting the camera raw settings. The updated raw files can be opened back in Photoshop and all of the adjustments are still present.

  I'm suspecting your problem would be fixed if Lightroom had a Merge option for re-reading the metadata for files that already exist in the LR catalog. You might want to contact Adobe and see if there is an option for this type of metadata read.

  I hope this clears up any confusion about how Photo Mechanic updates the XMP sidecar files.  If I can figure out some sort of work around, I'll send an update with the new workflow."

Again, I'm simply updating metadata and IPTC for .jpgs.  Does that mean I can't roundtrip from LR to PM and back to LR without it blowing away my edits?

If so, this software can't work for me without radically changing my workflow.

Anyone have this issue and a solution?

Thanks so much!
G

[Kirk Baker]

I think that we need a sample file from you so we can see if it really has camera RAW settings in its XMP data.   JPEGs don't have XMP sidecar files.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Hayo Baan]

Hi, of LR indeed does not update the XMP files like the sales guy suggested, all you need to do is to change the LR preferences so that it does. Having LR write out the XMP is something I'd recommend anyway. That way you're sure to have your edits available outside LR as well (eg in Photoshop or Bridge)

Hope this helps,
Hayo

[mrpiano]

Hi Hayo,

I have LR writing to XMP in the preferences.  The problem is when I edit a photo in Lightroom, open up the same photo in Photo Mechanic after I've done the LR edits, then make changes to the IPTC in Photo Mechanic, then I go back into Lightroom and when it updates the metadata, it adds a "Reset" step to the Lightroom history and dumps my edits.

I can't tell from this thread if (a) that's the way it works and there's nothing I can do (b) that's NOT the way it's supposed to work and I have something set incorrectly

Can someone go through this workflow and verify what's supposed to happen?  I believe my preferences in both programs are setup correctly.

@Kirk:  I am aware the JPEGs don't generate sidecar files.  The XMP data is written to the file as I understand it.  I shoot a Nikon D700 and D300s using large jpgs.  I do not do anything with RAW whatsoever.

Thank you!

[Rguzmanphoto]

Hi Hayo,

I have LR writing to XMP in the preferences.  The problem is when I edit a photo in Lightroom, open up the same photo in Photo Mechanic after I've done the LR edits, then make changes to the IPTC in Photo Mechanic, then I go back into Lightroom and when it updates the metadata, it adds a "Reset" step to the Lightroom history and dumps my edits.

I can't tell from this thread if (a) that's the way it works and there's nothing I can do (b) that's NOT the way it's supposed to work and I have something set incorrectly

Can someone go through this workflow and verify what's supposed to happen?  I believe my preferences in both programs are setup correctly.

@Kirk:  I am aware the JPEGs don't generate sidecar files.  The XMP data is written to the file as I understand it.  I shoot a Nikon D700 and D300s using large jpgs.  I do not do anything with RAW whatsoever.

Thank you!

I had this problem in the past versions of LR so after trialing LR4 the problem still persist I don't know the solution so I will keep using ACR and PS for edits. My steps were do selects in PM, caption selects in PM then open in LR and save edits to folder, open up folder in PM and transmit images to the service. Things were fine if I edit in LR first then save, open in PM and caption then transmit and like you if I had to open back up in LR all data was gone.

[Kirk Baker]

Can someone go through this workflow and verify what's supposed to happen?  I believe my preferences in both programs are setup correctly.

@Kirk:  I am aware the JPEGs don't generate sidecar files.  The XMP data is written to the file as I understand it.  I shoot a Nikon D700 and D300s using large jpgs.  I do not do anything with RAW whatsoever.

PM should preserve all XMP data present in the file.  What I have to know is whether the file as it is presented to PM indeed has the Camera RAW settings (crss namespace) or not.  Please post a sample JPEG that you have made adjustments to.  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your JPEG file.

Thanks,

-Kirk

[photomy]

I just tested with LR 4.2 and PM 4.6.9, using dng file.  Could not get it to reset as you describe.  Worked just the way a good workflow should work with changes to metadata from PM but no reset.

[Kirk Baker]

I just tested with LR 4.2 and PM 4.6.9, using dng file.  Could not get it to reset as you describe.  Worked just the way a good workflow should work with changes to metadata from PM but no reset.

I never mentioned the word "reset" in any of my posts.  Are you experiencing a problem?

-Kirk

[photomy]

No problem.  OP said he was having a problem with some kind of LR "reset" which I could not duplicate.