Author Topic: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture  (Read 7793 times)

Offline GLS

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PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« on: November 16, 2012, 02:20:04 AM »
Hello,
I embed IPTC data in my JPG with multiple details for instance in the caption field (Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 13444 (c5a5ad3)/Mac OS 10.8.2).
It appears that this is not indexed by spotlight, and files imported to Aperture V3.4.3 have empty captions.
Actually some old files (May 2012) are found based on caption information, but not more recent one (even those that had information lifted from an old recognized file and cmd-opt-V on the file).
Is there something to change in the preferences?
Is there a way to batch chance to "readable/indexable" IPTC all my files??
Thank you,

Giorgio
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 02:25:38 AM by GLS »

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 06:27:47 AM »
Giorgio,

I embed IPTC data in my JPG with multiple details for instance in the caption field (Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 13444 (c5a5ad3)/Mac OS 10.8.2).
It appears that this is not indexed by spotlight, and files imported to Aperture V3.4.3 have empty captions.
Actually some old files (May 2012) are found based on caption information, but not more recent one (even those that had information lifted from an old recognized file and cmd-opt-V on the file).
Is there something to change in the preferences?
Is there a way to batch chance to "readable/indexable" IPTC all my files??

How about posting two images, one that works with Spotlight and one that doesn't work with Spotlight and I'll look inside the files to see how their metadata differs.  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your files.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 09:18:34 AM »
Helo,
Here are two pics, interestingly the big one has an "invisible " caption (Caption="Mollet"), while  the version saved using PM5 (ending in A) has the same caption well identified when searching...
Thank you for your feedback,

Giorgio

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Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 11:17:08 PM »
Giorgio,

Here are two pics, interestingly the big one has an "invisible " caption (Caption="Mollet"), while  the version saved using PM5 (ending in A) has the same caption well identified when searching...

Both pictures have IPTC and XMP data.  Both files have their Caption field (Description) set to "Mollet" in both their IPTC and XMP data.  I have no idea why Spotlight would index one of them and not the other.

You can certainly use PM 5 to update other images in a batch.  First select your images.  Then open up the IPTC Stationery Pad.  Set the pad to clear some unused field and uncheck all of the other fields.  Then apply the IPTC Stationery Pad to the selected photos.  They should now be updated and Spotlight should re-index them.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 05:59:53 AM »
Hi Kirk,
Thank you for your suggestion.
I did as you suggested, spotlight re-indexed, but unfortunately it did not change anything... (still unable to search on IPTC Caption).
Again, saving any of the images with ⌘-S creates images correctly identified by caption by Spotlight.
Changing the IPTC (even editing the actual Caption) does not suffice to force Spotlight to index it.
I also tried to change file dates setting to EXIF to see if it forced Spotlight to re-index, to no avail.
Would you suggest something else?
(I already made private and un-private my Pictures folder so that Spotlight would reindex without success)

Thank you in advance,

Giorgio

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 07:54:27 AM »
Hello Kirk,
I think that it must be something in the way PM5 records the caption:
The caption is visible in the IPTC Core in Adobe Bridge CS6 (5.0.1.21),
BUT
not in ACDSee 2 (2.2.172) Pro: the IPTC caption fields that are filled in PM5 are empty (in IPTC Core, IPTC IIM (Legacy) and in IPTC Extended Headline and Keywords are ok though)...
and not in Aperture 3 (3.4.3), that does not sees the caption, but sees headlin and keywords.
Photomechanic used to be perfect for my workflow, and still it is to classify and manage my pictures, however I cannot recover any picture based on its caption if I am not using Bridge! I would rather stick to PM5 for all of my filing and retreiving needs!
Looking forward to hearing from you,

Giorgio

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 10:15:47 PM »
I think that it must be something in the way PM5 records the caption:
The caption is visible in the IPTC Core in Adobe Bridge CS6 (5.0.1.21),
BUT
not in ACDSee 2 (2.2.172) Pro: the IPTC caption fields that are filled in PM5 are empty (in IPTC Core, IPTC IIM (Legacy) and in IPTC Extended Headline and Keywords are ok though)...
and not in Aperture 3 (3.4.3), that does not sees the caption, but sees headline and keywords.
Photomechanic used to be perfect for my workflow, and still it is to classify and manage my pictures, however I cannot recover any picture based on its caption if I am not using Bridge! I would rather stick to PM5 for all of my filing and retrieving needs!
I wonder if the problem appeared with PM5 - Looking into pictures that I edited beginning of 2012 no caption is even VISIBLE in PM5, while it is visible in Bridge!

Is anyone having the same problem?

Thanks
Giorgio

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 06:53:02 AM »
Giorgio,

I think that it must be something in the way PM5 records the caption:
The caption is visible in the IPTC Core in Adobe Bridge CS6 (5.0.1.21),
BUT
not in ACDSee 2 (2.2.172) Pro: the IPTC caption fields that are filled in PM5 are empty (in IPTC Core, IPTC IIM (Legacy) and in IPTC Extended Headline and Keywords are ok though)...
and not in Aperture 3 (3.4.3), that does not sees the caption, but sees headline and keywords.
Photomechanic used to be perfect for my workflow, and still it is to classify and manage my pictures, however I cannot recover any picture based on its caption if I am not using Bridge! I would rather stick to PM5 for all of my filing and retrieving needs!
I wonder if the problem appeared with PM5 - Looking into pictures that I edited beginning of 2012 no caption is even VISIBLE in PM5, while it is visible in Bridge!

Is anyone having the same problem?

I'd like to see your IPTC/XMP settings in Photo Mechanic 5.  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your JPEG format screenshot.

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 07:08:44 AM »
Here are the IPTC/XMP settings!
Cheers
Giorgio

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Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2012, 08:00:29 AM »
Giorgio,

Your settings are fine.

I suggest taking a sample picture and setting its IPTC Info for each field to the name of the field.  So for instance in the Caption/Description field enter "Caption/Description", and for Keywords enter "Keywords", and so on for the other fields.  Then see what shows up in the other applications.  Do your test on a small image and if you don't get good results, post the small image here.

-Kirk

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 10:59:11 AM »
Hi Kirk,
I've done the testing, the problem is that if I use an image that has been resized (to get to a small size) the caption is written correctly, if I use a native image, Headline and keywords are recognised by spotlight and aperture, but not Caption/Description (that Bridge (and GraphicConverter) will recognise anyhow).
Native is a Nikon DSCN file and Mod is a Nikon DSCN file that has been resized.
Thank you in advance,

Giorgio La Scala

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Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 04:13:23 PM »
I've done the testing, the problem is that if I use an image that has been resized (to get to a small size) the caption is written correctly, if I use a native image, Headline and keywords are recognised by spotlight and aperture, but not Caption/Description (that Bridge (and GraphicConverter) will recognise anyhow).
Native is a Nikon DSCN file and Mod is a Nikon DSCN file that has been resized.

Can you tell me each step in your workflow that produced the Mod image?
Can you tell me each step in your workflow that produced the Native image?

Thanks,

-Kirk

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2012, 04:04:18 AM »
Mod image:
Ingested by PM5
IPTC information applied in PM5
Save photo as (⌘-S) reducing its scale

Original:
Ingested by PM5
IPTC information applied in PM5

Spotlight (and PM5) will find the Mod but not the original...

Offline GLS

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 10:31:28 PM »
Despite the fact that it appeared only recently, the problem seems to be "camera" related:
For work I've used since 2000 a Nikon Coolpix 990, and until earlier this year I had no problems in captioning pictures with PM and finding them with Spotlight or other software if needed.
Currently JPGs produced by the 990 (BY THE WAY,  no changes in the camera settings in past few months) do not store properly the IPTC caption in PM5 unless the file is ⌘-S or modified by another app.
Any ideas?

Thank you in advance,

Giorgio

Offline dennis

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Re: PM5 IPTC fields not recognized by spotlight, Aperture
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 01:46:25 PM »
I looked at both the MOD and NATIVE images and do not see any problem with how PM is storing the data.  Since you have your IPTC/XMP preferences set to embed both IPTC (IIM) and XMP there shouldn't be any problem with apps finding the metadata.

I suspect the issue is that the apps you are having problems with are finding the TIFF/Exif "Image Description" tag written by the camera as 10 blank characters "          " instead of finding the IPTC or XMP Caption (there are no comparable TIFF/Exif tags for Keywords and Headline).  It is problematic for PM to update this TIFF/Exif Image Description tag "in-place" for JPEG files because it requires rewriting the Exif table and there can be complications when Exif Maker notes are moved around (e.g. bad offsets).

When PM writes a new JPEG then (like with Photoshop) we do not write the maker note and so we duplicate the IPTC/XMP Caption into the TIFF "Image Description" tag and therefore these apps find the string.

This behavior shouldn't have changed in PM 5 versus 4.6.9.

HTH!

--dennis