Author Topic: A few requests / questions from a newbie...  (Read 7510 times)

Offline Richard_Smith

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A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« on: December 09, 2006, 05:53:47 PM »
Hi everyone.  Just getting settled into PM and have a few questions,
which may or may not be feature requests.

- Regarding EXIF data.  There are a few fields which don't seem to be
there.  For example Canon has an "image size", for example a picture
might be "large / fine" or "medium / fine".  The {quality} field
covers the "fine" part but I need the size.  Technically speaking this
field is in the Canon Makernote, tag = 0x0001, offset = 10.  It would
be nice to have this one available.  Another field is the {lens35}
which is not correct for Canon, at least not the 10D.  If there were
some way I could define my own fields this would be nice, since I know
it's very tedious for programmers to sift through the EXIF data of all
the different camera models, to get all these fields right.

- Regarding EXIF thumbnails.  There have been a few posts about
thumbnails not being in the proper rotation.  For example an image has
been hard-rotated to the vertical but the thumbnail appears
horizontal.  This can happen for a few reasons.  In the past there
have been some apps that would hard-rotate the image but not touch the
EXIF data, thus leaving the image file in an inconsistent state.  In
PM you can soft-rotate which will fix the EXIF orientation tag, but
this sometimes leaves the EXIF thumbnail horizontal, or it might be OK
in PM but look horizontal in other apps.  It would be nice to have an
option to re-build the EXIF thumbnail to get it into a consistent
state with the actual image data.  BB does this, but right now this is
the *only* thing I still use BB for.  ;-)

- Regarding how Color Classes work.  Any chance of making it possible
to apply more than one color class at a time?  For example I might
have one class for "Keep This Image" and another for "Print This
Image".  What if I want to apply both?  It would also be nice to have
a pane available (i.e., like the way Info, Crop, Zoom, and Histogram
work) that lists all the Color Classes and lets you check/uncheck
them.
 
I think that's good for now.  Thanks for a great program.


Online Kirk Baker

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 04:56:10 AM »
Richard,

Hi everyone.  Just getting settled into PM and have a few questions,
which may or may not be feature requests.

- Regarding EXIF data.  There are a few fields which don't seem to be
there.  For example Canon has an "image size", for example a picture
might be "large / fine" or "medium / fine".  The {quality} field
covers the "fine" part but I need the size.  Technically speaking this
field is in the Canon Makernote, tag = 0x0001, offset = 10.  It would
be nice to have this one available.  Another field is the {lens35}
which is not correct for Canon, at least not the 10D.  If there were
some way I could define my own fields this would be nice, since I know
it's very tedious for programmers to sift through the EXIF data of all
the different camera models, to get all these fields right.

I'd consider that a request.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
- Regarding EXIF thumbnails.  There have been a few posts about
thumbnails not being in the proper rotation.  For example an image has
been hard-rotated to the vertical but the thumbnail appears
horizontal.  This can happen for a few reasons.  In the past there
have been some apps that would hard-rotate the image but not touch the
EXIF data, thus leaving the image file in an inconsistent state.  In
PM you can soft-rotate which will fix the EXIF orientation tag, but
this sometimes leaves the EXIF thumbnail horizontal, or it might be OK
in PM but look horizontal in other apps.  It would be nice to have an
option to re-build the EXIF thumbnail to get it into a consistent
state with the actual image data.  BB does this, but right now this is
the *only* thing I still use BB for.  ;-)

Soft-rotation always leaves the image data and the EXIF thumbnail in their original orientation.  Only the EXIF orientation tag is modified if it exists.

There is a tool called "Apply Rotation to JPEGs..." on the Tools menu that will hard-rotate the image data (losslessly) and create a new rotated thumbnail.  The EXIF orientation tag is then reset to show no rotation.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
- Regarding how Color Classes work.  Any chance of making it possible
to apply more than one color class at a time?  For example I might
have one class for "Keep This Image" and another for "Print This
Image".  What if I want to apply both?  It would also be nice to have
a pane available (i.e., like the way Info, Crop, Zoom, and Histogram
work) that lists all the Color Classes and lets you check/uncheck
them.

When I was originally designing the UI for Color Classes, I had mocked up the UI with three color classes but it was way too busy so we reduced it to a single Color Class.  Then 5-star rating systems became popular and so I have now added a 5-star rating system to PM, but it sounds like that won't help you unless you wanted to use 5-star ratings as a more limited Color Class.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
I think that's good for now.  Thanks for a great program.

You're welcome.

-Kirk

Offline Primoz

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 12:10:21 PM »
One question about this color classes, stars ratings etc.
I also miss (at least a bit) option to assign 2 different classes to same photo. I don't use color classes to know if photo is good, kinda good or bad, but to assign one color class for photos I send back to my agency, and different one to photos I send straight to clients (newspapers, other agencies etc.). Now sometimes (or better to say most of time) I send same photos to my agency and to clients. I hope you got idea what I'm trying to explain :)
Now my question. Will color classes still exist after you will add (change to) 5 star system? If so, and if I will be able to assign specific color and specific star both together on same photo, my problems will be more or less solved. I can then use color classes for my agency and star markings for clients, which will be then same for me, as having 2 color classes for each photo.
PS: Tagging photos doesn't really work for me, since I usually tag them in camera already, so I have smaller batch of photos to choose from, when editing in hurry right after event. And usually I don't remove or change tags after that. So this probably tells you, that I don't need 2 color classes all that badly :)

Online Kirk Baker

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 01:33:57 PM »
Primoz,

One question about this color classes, stars ratings etc.
I also miss (at least a bit) option to assign 2 different classes to same photo. I don't use color classes to know if photo is good, kinda good or bad, but to assign one color class for photos I send back to my agency, and different one to photos I send straight to clients (newspapers, other agencies etc.). Now sometimes (or better to say most of time) I send same photos to my agency and to clients. I hope you got idea what I'm trying to explain :)
Now my question. Will color classes still exist after you will add (change to) 5 star system? If so, and if I will be able to assign specific color and specific star both together on same photo, my problems will be more or less solved. I can then use color classes for my agency and star markings for clients, which will be then same for me, as having 2 color classes for each photo.
PS: Tagging photos doesn't really work for me, since I usually tag them in camera already, so I have smaller batch of photos to choose from, when editing in hurry right after event. And usually I don't remove or change tags after that. So this probably tells you, that I don't need 2 color classes all that badly :)

The two systems will coexist just fine.  Each are full citizens for soft edits just like tag and rotation.  You can set the color class and 5-star rating on any photo you like.

-Kirk

Offline Primoz

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 01:58:09 PM »
Thanks Kirk for your answer. I'm eagerly waiting for 4.5 to come  ;D

Offline Richard_Smith

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 12:36:08 AM »
Quote from: Richard_Smith
- Regarding EXIF thumbnails.  There have been a few posts about
thumbnails not being in the proper rotation.  For example an image has
been hard-rotated to the vertical but the thumbnail appears
horizontal.  This can happen for a few reasons.  In the past there
have been some apps that would hard-rotate the image but not touch the
EXIF data, thus leaving the image file in an inconsistent state.  In
PM you can soft-rotate which will fix the EXIF orientation tag, but
this sometimes leaves the EXIF thumbnail horizontal, or it might be OK
in PM but look horizontal in other apps.  It would be nice to have an
option to re-build the EXIF thumbnail to get it into a consistent
state with the actual image data.  BB does this, but right now this is
the *only* thing I still use BB for.  ;-)

Soft-rotation always leaves the image data and the EXIF
thumbnail in their original orientation.  Only the EXIF orientation
tag is modified if it exists.

There is a tool called "Apply Rotation to JPEGs..." on the Tools menu
that will hard-rotate the image data (losslessly) and create a new
rotated thumbnail.  The EXIF orientation tag is then reset to show no
rotation.


Kirk,

I understand the difference between hard and soft rotation.  Perhaps I
do need to understand more here and explain myself better.

My concern is that when using PM as an archival tool, I may run across
images that have had some sort of bogus rotation algorithm applied to
them, and I want to be able to repair this.

Would you agree that being able to re-generate the thumbnail, just as
an option by itself, is a legitimate feature request?

Offline Richard_Smith

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 01:49:16 AM »
Quote from: Kirk Baker
When I was originally designing the UI for Color Classes, I had mocked
up the UI with three color classes but it was way too busy so we
reduced it to a single Color Class.  Then 5-star rating systems became
popular and so I have now added a 5-star rating system to PM, but it
sounds like that won't help you unless you wanted to use 5-star
ratings as a more limited Color Class.

My original question was, can I do multiple selection within a single
color class?  But your response got me thinking and now I have more
questions...  :)

Will the 5-star ratings be available through the "panes" interface or
will it require a right-mouse-click followed by a context menu
selection?  I've gotta say, doing the right-mouse-click-context-menu-select
thing over hundreds of images gets old real fast and that's probably the
main problem I have with color classes.

My opinion is that having both Color Classes and 5-star ratings both
in a "pane" window is the "Right Thing".  That way I can use the scroll
wheel to move through my images, and just click the left mouse button
to select whatever kind of image label I want, whether it be color class,
star rating, or simply tagging the images.

Online Kirk Baker

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 06:44:17 AM »
Quote from: Richard_Smith
- Regarding EXIF thumbnails.  There have been a few posts about
thumbnails not being in the proper rotation.  For example an image has
been hard-rotated to the vertical but the thumbnail appears
horizontal.  This can happen for a few reasons.  In the past there
have been some apps that would hard-rotate the image but not touch the
EXIF data, thus leaving the image file in an inconsistent state.  In
PM you can soft-rotate which will fix the EXIF orientation tag, but
this sometimes leaves the EXIF thumbnail horizontal, or it might be OK
in PM but look horizontal in other apps.  It would be nice to have an
option to re-build the EXIF thumbnail to get it into a consistent
state with the actual image data.  BB does this, but right now this is
the *only* thing I still use BB for.  ;-)

Soft-rotation always leaves the image data and the EXIF
thumbnail in their original orientation.  Only the EXIF orientation
tag is modified if it exists.

There is a tool called "Apply Rotation to JPEGs..." on the Tools menu
that will hard-rotate the image data (losslessly) and create a new
rotated thumbnail.  The EXIF orientation tag is then reset to show no
rotation.


Kirk,

I understand the difference between hard and soft rotation.  Perhaps I
do need to understand more here and explain myself better.

My concern is that when using PM as an archival tool, I may run across
images that have had some sort of bogus rotation algorithm applied to
them, and I want to be able to repair this.

Would you agree that being able to re-generate the thumbnail, just as
an option by itself, is a legitimate feature request?


Sure, a Regenerate Thumbnails tool could be added.

-Kirk

Online Kirk Baker

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 06:50:02 AM »
Quote from: Kirk Baker
When I was originally designing the UI for Color Classes, I had mocked
up the UI with three color classes but it was way too busy so we
reduced it to a single Color Class.  Then 5-star rating systems became
popular and so I have now added a 5-star rating system to PM, but it
sounds like that won't help you unless you wanted to use 5-star
ratings as a more limited Color Class.

My original question was, can I do multiple selection within a single
color class?

No, that cannot be done with the current user interface.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
But your response got me thinking and now I have more
questions...  :)

Will the 5-star ratings be available through the "panes" interface or
will it require a right-mouse-click followed by a context menu
selection?

You just click and drag and the stars appear/disappear.  Or you can use keyboard shortcuts.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
I've gotta say, doing the right-mouse-click-context-menu-select
thing over hundreds of images gets old real fast and that's probably the
main problem I have with color classes.

You don't have to right-click.  A left-click will do.  Also, there are keyboard shortcuts for all of this.  See the full manual available in the Announcements section of the forums.

Quote from: Richard_Smith
My opinion is that having both Color Classes and 5-star ratings both
in a "pane" window is the "Right Thing".  That way I can use the scroll
wheel to move through my images, and just click the left mouse button
to select whatever kind of image label I want, whether it be color class,
star rating, or simply tagging the images.

I would recommend using the keyboard for all of this.  You don't need to use the mouse at all, though I suppose using the scroll wheel with the keyboard would be quite efficient too.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline Richard_Smith

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 10:10:17 AM »
Quote from: Kirk Baker
Quote from: Richard_Smith
My original question was, can I do multiple selection within a single
color class?

No, that cannot be done with the current user interface.

OK, well, if you could add that to the list of feature requests I'd
appreciate it. ;-)

It's definitely something that I'd make use of.

Thanks.


Online Kirk Baker

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 10:33:17 AM »
Quote from: Kirk Baker
Quote from: Richard_Smith
My original question was, can I do multiple selection within a single
color class?

No, that cannot be done with the current user interface.

OK, well, if you could add that to the list of feature requests I'd
appreciate it. ;-)

It's definitely something that I'd make use of.

This would require busying up the interface.  The Color Class indicator can only be one color, so in order to have multiple choices, we would need multiple Color Class indicators on each photo, thus it gets busy looking.

-Kirk

Offline Richard_Smith

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Re: A few requests / questions from a newbie...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 12:17:55 PM »
Quote from: Kirk Baker
This would require busying up the interface.  The Color Class
indicator can only be one color, so in order to have multiple choices,
we would need multiple Color Class indicators on each photo, thus it
gets busy looking.

-Kirk

I see your point.  I'm eager to take a look at 4.5 when it comes out.
I'm sure I'll have more feedback at that point.  I think this is a
situation where there's a simple answer struggling to get out of a
complex problem.

My point is, since there are going to be three tagging options (simple
tag, color class, and 5-star), it's inevitable that the interface will
need to evolve.  The only question is how.  I think if there can be a
pane for cropping, and a pane for zoom, the logic of a pane for
tagging has a certain appeal.

The only reason I'm dwelling on this issue is that I've looked at all
the programs that compete with PM, and I need a "power tool" that lets
me sift through massive numbers of image files (I've taken at least
10,000 pics since I got my D30 in 2001).  The ability to get creative
with tagging is kind of a critical issue.  PM is already the best as
far as I can see.  The only question is how can it get better.

That's all I wanted to say.  Thanks again.