Author Topic: NXD question  (Read 8752 times)

Offline msturk

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NXD question
« on: February 26, 2014, 09:06:05 AM »
When I add IPTC info prior to Ingest in Photo Mechanic that info doesn't stay with the JPEG file once processed in Nikon's new beta software NXD. What do I need to change in PM Preferences and if I do change a setting will that mess up Lightroom and CS6 which do maintain the IPTC info in my processed files.

Offline plambrou

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 10:16:30 PM »
When Nikon NEF files are opened in Nikon's new beta Capture NX-D a sub-folder called NKS_PARAM is created under the original folder containing the NEF files. It contains special Nikon sidecar files with all the NX-D edit info. The files have the structure: 'original name'.NEF.nks

Noticed also that all IPTC info is stripped out in the converted JPEG/TIFF files.

You can send comments/questions to Nikon on the beta download site http://beta.nikonimglib.com/

Cheers
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 10:22:12 PM by plambrou »

Offline Franz Dur

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 03:33:51 AM »
.....
Noticed also that all IPTC info is stripped out in the converted JPEG/TIFF files.
....
Cheers

I don't see this. I wrote metadata in a "virgin" NEF with ViewNx2, then converted it to jpg with NX-D. The jpg inherits some of the iptc tags I wrote into the NEF (Objectname, Byline, City, Province-state, Country-PrimaryLocation) as seen with ExiftoolGUI.

I think it depends with what you look at the metadata in the JPG, some viewers only show the xmp/iptc, and these are empty indeed.

Anyway it is a shame Nikon made away with any possibility to write/edit metadata. I would stay away from NX-D in a workflow like Ingest, convert, catalog.

Francis

Offline plambrou

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 02:10:37 PM »
I use Photo Mechanic to ingest the captured images and insert my IPTC template plus caption, keywords, etc. When the converted JPEG/TIFF is viewed in Photo Mechanic the IPTC info is gone.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2014, 02:25:38 PM »
I use Photo Mechanic to ingest the captured images and insert my IPTC template plus caption, keywords, etc. When the converted JPEG/TIFF is viewed in Photo Mechanic the IPTC info is gone.

This is appears to a problem with Nikon Capture NX-D that will have to be addressed by Nikon.  We have been unable as of this writing to get a direct contact with the team that is producing the software but are working on it.

You and all other metadata-using folks should contact Nikon via their feedback form (where you got the beta) and let them know that having standards-compliant metadata support is very important to you.

-Kirk

Offline plambrou

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2014, 06:07:43 PM »
Kirk, I did earlier today.

Offline bazography

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 11:30:59 PM »
I use Photo Mechanic to ingest the captured images and insert my IPTC template plus caption, keywords, etc. When the converted JPEG/TIFF is viewed in Photo Mechanic the IPTC info is gone.

This is appears to a problem with Nikon Capture NX-D that will have to be addressed by Nikon.  We have been unable as of this writing to get a direct contact with the team that is producing the software but are working on it.

You and all other metadata-using folks should contact Nikon via their feedback form (where you got the beta) and let them know that having standards-compliant metadata support is very important to you.

-Kirk

I've been wondering about this issue as well. Very disturbing happenings over at Nikon. I've posted feedback regarding this and many other issues with Capture NX-D. With this metadata issue plus the fact that it has no previews, this is not very Photo Mechanic friendly software.
 
Here's the NX-D feedback link... please use it, we need to convince Nikon to play nice with Photo Mechanic!
http://beta.nikonimglib.com/voice/index.html.en

Offline Tom Parkes 2

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2014, 10:35:18 AM »
Although I've sent feedback to Nikon regarding the metadata problem, past attempts at trying to discuss integration with third party software on my part have always hit the Nikon stonewall. I certainly wouldn't count on them budging on this in the short term.

Offline Soizic

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 11:37:47 PM »
I thing it is better to renounce NX-D, too much disadvantages and Nikon seems indifferent.
Soizic (France)
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Offline bazography

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2014, 10:45:52 PM »
I use Photo Mechanic to ingest the captured images and insert my IPTC template plus caption, keywords, etc. When the converted JPEG/TIFF is viewed in Photo Mechanic the IPTC info is gone.

This is appears to a problem with Nikon Capture NX-D that will have to be addressed by Nikon.  We have been unable as of this writing to get a direct contact with the team that is producing the software but are working on it.

You and all other metadata-using folks should contact Nikon via their feedback form (where you got the beta) and let them know that having standards-compliant metadata support is very important to you.

-Kirk

I just discovered something I haven't seen mentioned before.
The basic problem discussed in this thread is when you export a NEF from NX-D to a TIF or JPG, any metadata previously written to your NEF by PM disappears. But I just discovered that the metadata is not gone at all. All the info I wrote to my original NEFs using PM shows up in the exported TIF when viewed with Photoshops's "File Info" window. So I'm confused... PM wrote the info and can't read it, yet Photoshop can? I'm sure there's a logical explanation but it seems backwards to me.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2014, 11:12:17 PM »
Can you provide a small sample file?
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Offline bazography

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 11:19:17 AM »
Can you provide a small sample file?
I just assumed it would be the same for everyone... are you not seeing your metadata in Photoshop?

Just to be completely clear, here is the exact workflow I'm referring to:
- Ingest NEFs using Photo Mechanic.
- Add metadata using PM's Stationary Pad, typically Photographer, Copyright, Keywords, City, State, Country etc.
- Open NEF in NX-D, modify, and export as TIF or JPG.
- The metadata written by PM is NOT visible in the exported TIF or JPG using PM.
- The metadata written by PM IS visible in the exported TIF or JPG using Photoshop's File Info dialog.

I attached a jpg exported from NX-D. To the original NEF I wrote metadata into every field that I have visible in my Stationary Pad (I wrote to each field the same way so it can be easily searched: "Test PM Metadata Keywords", Test PM Metadata Copyright", etc). I see all the metadata in Photoshop, but not PM.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 12:21:56 PM »
Thanks for the sample file, being dismayed by the extremely limited functionality NX-D is offering (I was an avid NX2 user), I do not intend to use NX-D (ever), I therefore don't have it installed so couldn't test.

Anyway, one look at the file with exiftool shows the information is indeed in the file, but then only as IPTC, not as XMP fields. You (like most of us I guess) have instructed to have PM use XMP before IPTC. If there is no XMP present, this will work fine. However, as NX-D does put some data into the XMP, PM will ignore the IPTC altogether. I guess Photoshop uses a slightly different approach and (also) uses the data in the IPTC.

Perhaps PM can be adjusted to merge the IPTC in this case, but I'm not sure how easy that is going to be. A work-around for you would be to instruct PM to prefer IPTC over XMP  (Preferences|IPTC/XMP) for JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and DNG. But this may not work correctly for some of your other files.

Cheers,
Hayo
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Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline bazography

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 01:13:17 PM »
Thanks for the sample file, being dismayed by the extremely limited functionality NX-D is offering (I was an avid NX2 user), I do not intend to use NX-D (ever), I therefore don't have it installed so couldn't test.

Anyway, one look at the file with exiftool shows the information is indeed in the file, but then only as IPTC, not as XMP fields. You (like most of us I guess) have instructed to have PM use XMP before IPTC. If there is no XMP present, this will work fine. However, as NX-D does put some data into the XMP, PM will ignore the IPTC altogether. I guess Photoshop uses a slightly different approach and (also) uses the data in the IPTC.

Perhaps PM can be adjusted to merge the IPTC in this case, but I'm not sure how easy that is going to be. A work-around for you would be to instruct PM to prefer IPTC over XMP  (Preferences|IPTC/XMP) for JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and DNG. But this may not work correctly for some of your other files.

Cheers,
Hayo

Interesting... thanks Hayo. I'm not sure I will end up using NX-D either. I'm not in a hurry to decide though, so I'd like to find out exactly how NX-D is going to work with PM... if at all. Since the metadata is not actually gone, perhaps there is a way things can be tweaked to work. And I suppose we have to remember it is still in beta and Nikon is asking for feedback (which I've been providing plenty of).

Kirk mentioned earlier in this thread that there are issues that will have to be addressed by Nikon. Maybe someone at Camera Bits could expand on that a bit so that we can provide Nikon with some more specific feedback on the subject.

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: NXD question
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 02:01:52 PM »
Interesting... thanks Hayo. I'm not sure I will end up using NX-D either. I'm not in a hurry to decide though, so I'd like to find out exactly how NX-D is going to work with PM... if at all. Since the metadata is not actually gone, perhaps there is a way things can be tweaked to work. And I suppose we have to remember it is still in beta and Nikon is asking for feedback (which I've been providing plenty of).

Kirk mentioned earlier in this thread that there are issues that will have to be addressed by Nikon. Maybe someone at Camera Bits could expand on that a bit so that we can provide Nikon with some more specific feedback on the subject.

If you read the answers Nikon so far provided on some of the user feedback, you'll get a good idea of where they are heading. And it sure isn't in a direction where they will provide all the functionality you were used to in NX2.
I've already made the switch to adobe camera raw in combination with dng and basically have my old workflow back. Sure there are things I miss in ACR (retouch brush most notably), but that is more than made good by the fact my workflow is now many times faster. My only wish is that I switched earlier...
Note: even if the NX-D functionality would match that of NX2, I still would not use it as they adopted a new file strategy using propriety sidecars files in a separate directory and (this really is a deal breaker for me) not updating the embedded preview.

As to what Nikon should fix in the metadata case, well, they should simply not strip the XMP info but maintain both IPTC and XMP with the metadata as specified.

As I mentioned, you do have a workaround, namely to have PM use IPTC before XMP. But as I said also, this may not work 100% for other files (that is if you've updated those with software other than PM and when that software does not also update the IPTC, so perhaps you are fine anyway as PM keeps IPTC and XMP in sync)

Cheers,
Hayo
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