Handling hidden IPTC fields

[vAfotoriporter]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

He cleared the stationery and loaded my caption file then started modifying it to his copyright settings. Only after our images were published did we discover that some of the fields (those he has hidden from the IPTC panel) stayed filled with my copyright data while the others he has visibly in IPTC stationery were changed to his settings.

We think this is a bad and dangerous behaviour of PM. Content should not loaded and added into the hidden fields or at least some warning should be displayed to the user to know there will be some content applied to the fields he doesn't see - but a warning should be accompanied by a show all fields button or some other easy way to display what is missing. I think not loading content into the hidden fields is a better approach - or at least please make it optional to be able to deactivate in the preferences.

Both my and my colleague uses Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16438 (e61be25)

[Kirk Baker]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

He cleared the stationery and loaded my caption file then started modifying it to his copyright settings. Only after our images were published did we discover that some of the fields (those he has hidden from the IPTC panel) stayed filled with my copyright data while the others he has visibly in IPTC stationery were changed to his settings.

We think this is a bad and dangerous behaviour of PM. Content should not loaded and added into the hidden fields or at least some warning should be displayed to the user to know there will be some content applied to the fields he doesn't see - but a warning should be accompanied by a show all fields button or some other easy way to display what is missing. I think not loading content into the hidden fields is a better approach - or at least please make it optional to be able to deactivate in the preferences.

Both my and my colleague uses Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16438 (e61be25)

What you're suggesting would lead to data loss if PM were to not preserve the metadata.  I suggest you have your colleague not hide fields that are important to your shared workflow.

-Kirk

[vAfotoriporter]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

He cleared the stationery and loaded my caption file then started modifying it to his copyright settings. Only after our images were published did we discover that some of the fields (those he has hidden from the IPTC panel) stayed filled with my copyright data while the others he has visibly in IPTC stationery were changed to his settings.

We think this is a bad and dangerous behaviour of PM. Content should not loaded and added into the hidden fields or at least some warning should be displayed to the user to know there will be some content applied to the fields he doesn't see - but a warning should be accompanied by a show all fields button or some other easy way to display what is missing. I think not loading content into the hidden fields is a better approach - or at least please make it optional to be able to deactivate in the preferences.

Both my and my colleague uses Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16438 (e61be25)

What you're suggesting would lead to data loss if PM were to not preserve the metadata.  I suggest you have your colleague not hide fields that are important to your shared workflow.

-Kirk

I understand your point of view and partially agree it (I also told that to the colleague), but it could still help to prevent such user errors if PM would display a warning message that some of data that will be applied to the images cannot be seen by the user due to the setup of the fields.

[Kirk Baker]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

He cleared the stationery and loaded my caption file then started modifying it to his copyright settings. Only after our images were published did we discover that some of the fields (those he has hidden from the IPTC panel) stayed filled with my copyright data while the others he has visibly in IPTC stationery were changed to his settings.

We think this is a bad and dangerous behaviour of PM. Content should not loaded and added into the hidden fields or at least some warning should be displayed to the user to know there will be some content applied to the fields he doesn't see - but a warning should be accompanied by a show all fields button or some other easy way to display what is missing. I think not loading content into the hidden fields is a better approach - or at least please make it optional to be able to deactivate in the preferences.

Both my and my colleague uses Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16438 (e61be25)

What you're suggesting would lead to data loss if PM were to not preserve the metadata.  I suggest you have your colleague not hide fields that are important to your shared workflow.

I understand your point of view and partially agree it (I also told that to the colleague), but it could still help to prevent such user errors if PM would display a warning message that some of data that will be applied to the images cannot be seen by the user due to the setup of the fields.

And I understand your point of view, but this issue is bigger than just the IPTC Info dialog.  For instance, the IPTC Stationery Pad doesn't ever show you what exists in fields of images.  It shows you what you're going to apply.  Fields that are visible but not applied are not overwritten and of course fields that are not visible are never overwritten.  To do so would be bad in a big way.

I don't think we'll make any changes to how this works.  It goes beyond what PM is even capable of displaying/modifying.  Anyone can create their own XMP namespace and fields and PM does not interfere with them.  If PM were to destroy them or even just warn that there are fields that can't be seen, this would be very concerning to the user.

-Kirk

[vAfotoriporter]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

He cleared the stationery and loaded my caption file then started modifying it to his copyright settings. Only after our images were published did we discover that some of the fields (those he has hidden from the IPTC panel) stayed filled with my copyright data while the others he has visibly in IPTC stationery were changed to his settings.

We think this is a bad and dangerous behaviour of PM. Content should not loaded and added into the hidden fields or at least some warning should be displayed to the user to know there will be some content applied to the fields he doesn't see - but a warning should be accompanied by a show all fields button or some other easy way to display what is missing. I think not loading content into the hidden fields is a better approach - or at least please make it optional to be able to deactivate in the preferences.

Both my and my colleague uses Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16438 (e61be25)

What you're suggesting would lead to data loss if PM were to not preserve the metadata.  I suggest you have your colleague not hide fields that are important to your shared workflow.

I understand your point of view and partially agree it (I also told that to the colleague), but it could still help to prevent such user errors if PM would display a warning message that some of data that will be applied to the images cannot be seen by the user due to the setup of the fields.

And I understand your point of view, but this issue is bigger than just the IPTC Info dialog.  For instance, the IPTC Stationery Pad doesn't ever show you what exists in fields of images.  It shows you what you're going to apply.  Fields that are visible but not applied are not overwritten and of course fields that are not visible are never overwritten.  To do so would be bad in a big way.

I don't think we'll make any changes to how this works.  It goes beyond what PM is even capable of displaying/modifying.  Anyone can create their own XMP namespace and fields and PM does not interfere with them.  If PM were to destroy them or even just warn that there are fields that can't be seen, this would be very concerning to the user.

-Kirk

You say "of course fields that are not visible are never overwritten". But in our case exactly this happened. My colleague has some fields hidden and those hidden fields got overwritten with the data he had no chance to see as the fields were hidden - but PM still loaded content for them from the caption file used and overwrote the data in the photos - however based on your statement it should not as PM doesn't overwrite hidden fields. This seems to be an inconsistency for me.

[Kirk Baker]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

If the IPTC Stationery Pad data is set to apply fields, then they will be applied whether they are seen or not by you prior to their application.  One can apply an IPTC Stationery Pad from the Contact Sheet outside of the IPTC Stationery Pad.

To be more clear, what I mean by "fields that are not visible are never overwritten" is data that is not capable of being edited by the IPTC Stationery Pad.  For instance Adobe Camera RAW settings are never editable, and they are always preserved.

You gave your colleague an IPTC Stationery Pad set up the way you wanted it applied and when your colleague used it, it did what you intended.

-Kirk

[vAfotoriporter]

During a work I sent over an IPTC stationery preset to a colleague to use on his computer. I have all IPTC fields visible, but he has just the most commonly used ones displayed and he have hidden the rest of the fields.

If the IPTC Stationery Pad data is set to apply fields, then they will be applied whether they are seen or not by you prior to their application.  One can apply an IPTC Stationery Pad from the Contact Sheet outside of the IPTC Stationery Pad.

To be more clear, what I mean by "fields that are not visible are never overwritten" is data that is not capable of being edited by the IPTC Stationery Pad.  For instance Adobe Camera RAW settings are never editable, and they are always preserved.

You gave your colleague an IPTC Stationery Pad set up the way you wanted it applied and when your colleague used it, it did what you intended.

-Kirk

Thanks for clarification.