Author Topic: PM -> LR -> PS  (Read 9028 times)

Offline MikeV99

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PM -> LR -> PS
« on: March 04, 2009, 01:40:36 PM »
Does the workflow of Photo Mechanic to Lightroom and to Photoshop as needed make sense (or should it be PM to PS)? PM provides the image management tools so why would one use both LR and PS?

Thanks

Mike

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 04:00:36 AM »
Mike,

Note my workflow is probably not really like yours, so not all my comments may apply to you.

Here's what I do and use for 99% of my images:
1. Shoot (RAW)
2. Ingest in PM
3. Delete/Select and tag in PM
4. Edit RAW file in Nikon Capture NX2, edits saved in original RAW file
5. (Optional) Perform further edits in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD

For the occasional shot taken not as a Nikon RAW file, Step 4 and 5 become:
a4. (if it is a RAW file) Edit RAW file in ACR, settings saved as XMP sidecar file.
a5. Edit file in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD
This is probably what is applicable to your workflow as well.

As you can see, there is NO Lightroom (or Bridge for that matter) in this workflow, nor would it be useful in my opinion.
The only reasons I can think of that would make you use LR next to PM would be:
  • You "need" the database capabilities of LR and can't wait for PM to have it
  • You like the RAW editing interface of LR more than the one of PS (they both use the same ACR module though, so results should be the same)

I hope this helps,
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline MikeV99

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 02:39:24 PM »
Hayo,

Thank you for your advice. Forgot to mention that I use Canon and do photography for fun.

1. Shoot (RAW)
2. Ingest in PM
3. Delete/Select and tag in PM
4. Edit RAW file in ACR, settings saved as XMP sidecar file.
5. Edit file in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD

As you can see, there is NO Lightroom (or Bridge for that matter) in this workflow, nor would it be useful in my opinion.


Step 4 -- what do you use to start ACR?

Would not one need to use LR, Bridge, CS4 or Elements 7 to start ACR?

From your comment, it makes me think you are using LR's ACR Develop feature (which is pretty close to ACR) and only going to CS4 when layers or more advanced editing is needed. (I am also thinking about the debate about converting the raw to dng so that a separate XMP file is not needed. One can also use smart objects in CS4 to accomplish many non-destructive image modifications.)

The PM -> LR -> PS allows one to quickly screen the photos, use the somewhat simpler interface of LR, and use PS only when layers or more sophistication is needed.

The PM -> PS allows one to to quickly screen the photos and have a less intuitive (IMHO) interface but full capability of PS (one less app).

Can one do anything in LR Develop that cannot be done in PS? Both apps use ACR (or equivalent) for the initial image manipulations.



Mike

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 03:39:11 PM »
Hayo,

Thank you for your advice. Forgot to mention that I use Canon and do photography for fun.

1. Shoot (RAW)
2. Ingest in PM
3. Delete/Select and tag in PM
4. Edit RAW file in ACR, settings saved as XMP sidecar file.
5. Edit file in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD

As you can see, there is NO Lightroom (or Bridge for that matter) in this workflow, nor would it be useful in my opinion.

This would be a suitable workflow in your case (and in fact the workflow I use whenever I have taken a shot with one of the special Canon 5Ds at my Photography School).

Quote
Step 4 -- what do you use to start ACR?

Would not one need to use LR, Bridge, CS4 or Elements 7 to start ACR?
To start ACR one just needs to open a RAW file (or even a JPG file if one has set this Photoshop Preference). ACR is then opened automatically (given you have Photoshop CS4/Elements etc. installed). You do not need LR nor Bridge for this.

Quote
From your comment, it makes me think you are using LR's ACR Develop feature (which is pretty close to ACR) and only going to CS4 when layers or more advanced editing is needed. (I am also thinking about the debate about converting the raw to dng so that a separate XMP file is not needed. One can also use smart objects in CS4 to accomplish many non-destructive image modifications.)
Nope, I do not use the LR development section at all; I only have CS4  ;D  But yes, the LR development section and ACR are virtually the same (but have a rather different interface).

Quote
The PM -> LR -> PS allows one to quickly screen the photos, use the somewhat simpler interface of LR, and use PS only when layers or more sophistication is needed.

The PM -> PS allows one to to quickly screen the photos and have a less intuitive (IMHO) interface but full capability of PS (one less app).

Can one do anything in LR Develop that cannot be done in PS? Both apps use ACR (or equivalent) for the initial image manipulations.
To my knowledge ACR and the Development section in LR are really the same thing, but with just a different interface (and if at this moment they are not 100%, they certainly will be in the near future, if only for compatibility reasons; e.g., the ability to have your Photoshop/ACR changes editable in LR and vice versa.)

I would certainly opt for the PM->PS route as this skips a step in the process (and the cost of an additional application).

Hope this helps!
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl

Offline MikeV99

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 05:37:10 PM »
1. Shoot (RAW)
2. Ingest in PM
3. Delete/Select and tag in PM
4. Edit RAW file in ACR, settings saved as XMP sidecar file.
5. Edit file in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD

This would be a suitable workflow in your case (and in fact the workflow I use whenever I have taken a shot with one of the special Canon 5Ds at my Photography School).

Perfect, thank you.

Would you ever consider using DNG rather than XMP sidecars?

Quote
Step 4 -- what do you use to start ACR?
Quote
To start ACR one just needs to open a RAW file (or even a JPG file if one has set this Photoshop Preference). ACR is then opened automatically (given you have Photoshop CS4/Elements etc. installed). You do not need LR nor Bridge for this.

If I open a .cr2 file from windows explorer (right click, open), my file associations start PS which then opens ACR. Depending on how I finish PS is involved. I could have accomplished the same thing just opening PS then doing File/Open. Am I missing something?

Quote
I would certainly opt for the PM->PS route as this skips a step in the process (and the cost of an additional application).

Hope this helps!


Indeed it does, thank you for taking the time to help me with your advice.

Mike

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 05:54:46 PM »
Mike,

If I open a .cr2 file from windows explorer (right click, open), my file associations start PS which then opens ACR. Depending on how I finish PS is involved. I could have accomplished the same thing just opening PS then doing File/Open. Am I missing something?

Assign Photoshop as the Editor for CR2 files.  You can do this in the Launching tab of the Photo Mechanic Preferences dialog.  You can assign Photoshop as your default image editor, or you can assign an individual editor for each filetype Photo Mechanic supports.

Then you can launch images right into Photoshop from Photo Mechanic.

HTH,

-Kirk

Offline Hayo Baan

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Re: PM -> LR -> PS
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 05:15:46 AM »
1. Shoot (RAW)
2. Ingest in PM
3. Delete/Select and tag in PM
4. Edit RAW file in ACR, settings saved as XMP sidecar file.
5. Edit file in PS CS4, edits saved as TIFF or PSD

This would be a suitable workflow in your case (and in fact the workflow I use whenever I have taken a shot with one of the special Canon 5Ds at my Photography School).

Perfect, thank you.

Would you ever consider using DNG rather than XMP sidecars?

Hmm, currently not as I stick with NEF. For the files I edit in ACR (like the ones I shot with a Canon 5D at school), however, DNG could be a viable alternative to the CR2+XMP file combo.  However, if I would (ever) go the DNG route, I would definitely save them with the original RAW file embedded as well. This would blow up the file size considerably though…

Quote
Quote
Step 4 -- what do you use to start ACR?
Quote
To start ACR one just needs to open a RAW file (or even a JPG file if one has set this Photoshop Preference). ACR is then opened automatically (given you have Photoshop CS4/Elements etc. installed). You do not need LR nor Bridge for this.

If I open a .cr2 file from windows explorer (right click, open), my file associations start PS which then opens ACR. Depending on how I finish PS is involved. I could have accomplished the same thing just opening PS then doing File/Open. Am I missing something?

No you are not missing something; ACR is part of Photoshop (or Lightroom) and to work with it, PS needs to open first. Yes, this also means you could have opened the file from within PS itself. But isn't it more convenient to do from within your favourite image browser (e.g., PM)?

Quote
Quote
I would certainly opt for the PM->PS route as this skips a step in the process (and the cost of an additional application).

Hope this helps!


Indeed it does, thank you for taking the time to help me with your advice.

You are more than welcome  :)
Hayo Baan - Photography
Web: www.hayobaan.nl