change meta date loose imaging

[billy3220]

I recently discovered that when I add a rating or caption data to images I have already toned in Camera raw the toning information is erased. Why is that and what can I do to stop it form happening. This has never happen before but now since the latest update it has been. It's very frustrating and adding more time to my edit process.


-Nick

[billy3220]

Sorry forgot to put I'm running the latest version of Photo Mechanic on a mac book pro with os 10.6.4


-Nick

[Kirk Baker]

Nick,

Sorry forgot to put I'm running the latest version of Photo Mechanic on a mac book pro with os 10.6.4

Sounds like you're not using a pure XMP sidecar workflow.  You need to not embed IPTC4XMP into your RAW files.  The easiest way to accomplish this is to uncheck the "Allow RAW files (non DNG) to be modified for metadata and image preferences updates" check box on the Files tab of the Photo Mechanic Preferences dialog.

You should also use the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" command on the Tools menu for any RAW files exhibiting this problem.  This will remove the embedded XMP data.  The reason you're having this problem is that Adobe's apps all have what we consider to be a bug in their programming where they prefer embedded XMP data over sidecar XMP data but only update sidecar XMP data.  The next time you use Adobe's apps to view the RAW image they don't see the adjustments they wrote to the XMP sidecar file and they don't find it in the embedded XMP data since they didn't update that data when the adjustments were made.  Removing the embedded XMP data solves this issue.

-Kirk

[billy3220]

I unchecked the "Allow RAW files (non DNG) to be modified for metadata and image preferences updates" check box on the Files tab of the Photo Mechanic Preferences dialog and it is still not reading the XMP data form when I toned them in ACR. All I'm doing is rating the images after the fact and when I reopen the images in ACR the image setting are gone.

 I have my settings in ACR to save image settings in camera raw database, if that helps you see what I'm doing.

I did restart PM after changing the settings to make sure they would take affect.

I swear this never happened before.

[billy3220]

Also, using the Revert TIFF-Based RAW to Original just erases the image settings from ACR. I tested it on toned images i did rate and ones I didn't both lost the image settings.


I assume its because I am embedding the Image settings and not creating a side card file, but I really don't want to have two files for each image I create. I just want to keep track of one file per image. Am I just out of Luck?

[Kirk Baker]

Also, using the Revert TIFF-Based RAW to Original just erases the image settings from ACR. I tested it on toned images i did rate and ones I didn't both lost the image settings.

That can't be possible quite the way you've stated it.  The Revert tool removes all XMP data, IPTC data, etc. from the RAW file.  ACR adjustments that were in the XMP data (if any) would definitely be removed with the XMP data they're contained within.

I assume its because I am embedding the Image settings and not creating a side card file, but I really don't want to have two files for each image I create. I just want to keep track of one file per image. Am I just out of Luck?

That's the only way that Adobe's apps work properly, and you definitely cannot keep their apps from creating XMP sidecar files.

-Kirk

[billy3220]

I'm more lost now then I was before. So even if I'm making ACR embed the image settings it still creates a sidecar file? and that why the Revert tool should not be erasing the image settings. And If that is true then I have no idea why after using the tool my settings are gone?


Maybe we can start over....

Whats the best way for me to use ACR to tone images and PM to caption, rate, keyword without PM over writing the Image settings created by ACR.

-Nick

[Kirk Baker]

Nick,

I'm more lost now then I was before. So even if I'm making ACR embed the image settings it still creates a sidecar file? and that why the Revert tool should not be erasing the image settings. And If that is true then I have no idea why after using the tool my settings are gone?


Maybe we can start over....

Whats the best way for me to use ACR to tone images and PM to caption, rate, keyword without PM over writing the Image settings created by ACR.

There is no way to get ACR to embed XMP metadata including its settings into a RAW file unless it is a DNG file.  Are you using DNG or some other format?

-Kirk

[billy3220]

Well I'm confused then because I don't have any sidecar files for my CR2 images and it because of this setting in the ACR preferences

in General> Save Image Settings in: Camera Raw Database

I'm trying to attach an image of it but I don't know if its going to work.




[attachment deleted by admin]

[billy3220]

I read up on the Camera Raw Database option and it stores the image settings in a different database that pulls the information when the images are opened.

After reading both options I find both of them are not great options but the .xmp sidecar file seems to be the lesser of two evils considering I can control the location of that file.

I wish that cameras shoot in DNG or Adobe let you embed image settings inside raw files. But I assume nether company will let that happen.

Hopefully when I change the setting to .XMP sidecar files the probelm will be solved.

I'll let you know if it doesn't

Thanks for the help.

-Nick

[Kirk Baker]

Nick,

Well I'm confused then because I don't have any sidecar files for my CR2 images and it because of this setting in the ACR preferences

in General> Save Image Settings in: Camera Raw Database

I'm trying to attach an image of it but I don't know if its going to work.

I don't know how that database works, but if you were ever to upload your RAW files or move your RAW files to a different machine then the settings would still be lost even if you never used Photo Mechanic.  Unless they have some way of uniquely identifying the RAW files themselves then any movement (or renaming of the filename or parent directories) would also cause the settings to be lost.  I'd suspect they use a checksum of either part of the file or the entire file for this tracking.

I'd also expect that because PM "unmodified" your file that the database checksum didn't match any longer and thus ACR couldn't find the matching settings, thus causing the "loss" of your adjustments.  I put "loss" in quotes since the adjustment data is still likely in the database, it just no longer can be matched up with a corresponding file.

I don't think there is any solution but to go with sidecar files.  PM has to put your edits somewhere and it doesn't have the facility to keep settings in a database.  There are two choices: embedded or sidecar.  Embedded will cause checksums to change and ACR won't be able to match up settings with files and cause the loss of the settings.  XMP sidecar files will solve this issue, but you'll have to direct ACR to use them as well.

HTH,

-Kirk

[billy3220]

Ok So I'm going to go with Sidecar .XMP what settings should I Have for PM. I selected .xmp for photoshop ACR so I assume thats ready to go.  I just want to make sure PM is going to be in the correct setting as to not mess with image settings but still store the metadata in a place Lightroom can also read. 


Does that make sense...


-Nick

[Kirk Baker]

Nick,

Ok So I'm going to go with Sidecar .XMP what settings should I Have for PM. I selected .xmp for photoshop ACR so I assume thats ready to go.  I just want to make sure PM is going to be in the correct setting as to not mess with image settings but still store the metadata in a place Lightroom can also read. 

The easiest way to accomplish this is to uncheck the "Allow RAW files (non DNG) to be modified for metadata and image preferences updates" check box on the Files tab of the Photo Mechanic Preferences dialog.  Also set the popup menu labeled "Add tag, color class, and rating to IPTC/XMP:" to "For all photos".

That should do it.

-Kirk