Code Replacements Copyright symbol issue

[KenGMac]

Hi Hayo

I only work with raw files.
I've never embedded the metadata as far as I know.
I don't knowingly create an xmp file, but I see that's what's created.
Here is the xmp file as requested.
Hope it helps.

Best wishes
Ken

[Hayo Baan]

Hmm, the xmp looks fine (which I expected since that is always UTF-8 encoded). But if that's the case then things go wrong when you create the jpg. You said you created that in photoshop, but that really should not mess things up (and it didn't for me). Can you please tell us exactly what your workflow is and share the relevant files from each step?

E.g.
0. Take picture
1. Ingest, apply metadata within PM, including the © copyright symbol – here we need both the xmp and the raw file (for large files use e.g. wetransfer.com)
2. Edit in Photoshop Camera Raw, save as jpg – here we need the xmp, the raw, and the jpg

Above is how I understand your workflow, but this really should not have led to a wrong © symbol (in the IPTC). Unless there is a bug in your version of Photoshop (which I doubt). In fact above should not have caused the wrong © even if you don't have the “write as unicode” ticked…

[KenGMac]

Hi Hayo

I've done as you requested., and sent you all the raw + .xmp files via WeTransfer.
(Sent to support@camerabits.com, and also info@hayobaan.nl)

Hope that helps.

Many thanks
Ken Macpherson

[Hayo Baan]

Hi Ken,

I looked at the files and I still can't explain what's going on. When I try to create a JPG from the .cr2 file, all metadata looks fine, including the IPTC. This when I save it from within PM and when saved from within ACR. So I really can't understand what's going on at your end.

Ah, I noticed you saved the JPG from within Photoshop, not directly from ACR. Right now I can reproduce your issue! Clearly a Photoshop bug here; they forget to set the IPTC CodedCharacterSet when saving files with UTF8 characters in the metadata. The same problem occurs when saving to tiff by the way.

Note: you said you weren't embedding metadata, your raw files, however, did contain (xmp) metadata so you might want to check your metadata embedding options in PM…

[KenGMac]

Hayo

Thanks for the info.
I guess I'll just have to put up with this then if there's no fix for it.
I can find older files processsed using the the same method in Photoshop CC 2017 and all contain the © symbol and continues up until today!
Re: embed options in PM, is this how I do it? (see attached screen shot)

Ken

[Kirk Baker]

Ken,

Thanks for the info.
I guess I'll just have to put up with this then if there's no fix for it.
I can find older files processsed using the the same method in Photoshop CC 2017 and all contain the © symbol and continues up until today!
Re: embed options in PM, is this how I do it? (see attached screen shot)

If we completely eliminate Photoshop from the workflow, can you use code replacement in PM to add your copyright messages and have them look correct?

Then if you can answer "yes" to the above, does the problem only happen when saving from Photoshop?  If the answer is "yes" again, then the problem lies with Photoshop and how it is modifying the metadata when it saves the file.

I know that it is possible to use the copyright symbol via code replacement with PM5 and PM6 and have it look correct as I have done this many times myself.

-Kirk

[KenGMac]

Hi Kirk

Yes - by eliminating Photoshop, and saving in PM, the copyright always appears as it should.
I agree it looks like Photoshop is causing the problem, and I have to assume as it's been happening with all versions since CC 2017, it seems very unlikely the bug will ever get fixed.
It's annoying I can't get around this problem, so I'll just have to put up with this!

Best wishes
Ken

[Kirk Baker]

Ken,

Yes - by eliminating Photoshop, and saving in PM, the copyright always appears as it should.
I agree it looks like Photoshop is causing the problem, and I have to assume as it's been happening with all versions since CC 2017, it seems very unlikely the bug will ever get fixed.
It's annoying I can't get around this problem, so I'll just have to put up with this!

You could always apply another Metadata (IPTC) Template to your images post-Photoshop to fix them in bulk.

-Kirk

[KenGMac]

Kirk

Yes I could, BUT it's far too time-consuming as each image has a different Desciption/Caption, so I cannot fix, say a soccer match in a batch.
On the few occasions where time has allowed, I've manually deleted the  out of the © symbol in each image one at a time.

Cheers
Ken

[Kirk Baker]

Kirk

Yes I could [use Metadata (IPTC) Template], BUT it's far too time-consuming as each image has a different Desciption/Caption, so I cannot fix, say a soccer match in a batch.
On the few occasions where time has allowed, I've manually deleted the  out of the © symbol in each image one at a time.

I'm confused. Doesn't the Metadata (IPTC) Template allow you to selectively just replace one IPTC field (e.g., just the copyright field) in bulk, ignoring all other fields?

Yes, it does, but he may have different copyrights for different photos.  It wouldn't be a simple 'select-all-then-apply-bulk-metadata' operation.

-Kirk

[Kirk Baker]

Ken,

Yes I could, BUT it's far too time-consuming as each image has a different Desciption/Caption, so I cannot fix, say a soccer match in a batch.
On the few occasions where time has allowed, I've manually deleted the  out of the © symbol in each image one at a time.

Another solution would be to not write IPTC into your images, and to prefer XMP over IPTC.  IPTC is pretty much legacy data anymore.  It isn't changing with the times and is missing a number of new fields anyway.  XMP is always Unicode and will always encode extended characters properly.

I suggest setting your preferences like in the image below.

-Kirk

[Kirk Baker]

Ken,

Since you're embedding XMP into your RAW files (which I don't recommend if you're using Adobe products) you should be preferring embedded XMP over embedded IPTC on RAW files.

XMP sidecar files are really the way to go if you're using different imaging products together.

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

Since you're embedding XMP into your RAW files (which I don't recommend if you're using Adobe products) you should be preferring embedded XMP over embedded IPTC on RAW files.

XMP sidecar files are really the way to go if you're using different imaging products together.

Actually this all has nothing to do with the issue. It is 100% an error on Adobe's side. While PM embeds metadata in the raw file which in this workflow is indeed less then ideal, there is NO IPTC data. The IPTC data is only introduced by Adobe when saving as jpg (or tiff...) from within Photoshop. Clearly a Photoshop bug.

There is nothing that can be done at PM's end to prevent Adobe from writing the wrong IPTC info. Perhaps embedding also the IPTC in the raw file might help, but I'm not sure.
Fun fact: saving to jpg from Adobe camera raw actually produces correct IPTC, just not from within Photoshop...

[KenGMac]

Hi Kirk

Thank-you so much. 
Your suggestion looks like it's the fix I've been looking for.
I followed your tip (see attached} and hey-ho: there's no sign of the dreaded © in any of my captions today!

Ken

[Hayo Baan]

I followed your tip (see attached} and hey-ho: there's no sign of the dreaded © in any of my captions today!

Indeed, preferring XMP over IPTC (which you should always do anyway) does hide the issue. Just be aware that the IPTC metadata in the file itself still has the wrong copyright sign, but as said that can't be prevented as it is a bug introduced by Photoshop. Luckily all sane image software will prefer the XMP info so it is unlikely you will ever have a real problem here.