Unwanted: Crop marks persist on files copied to another computer

[Jerry and Lois Photo]

Hi there -

It took a while to track this down and was quite maddening.

In my captures, I rarely use the crop tool in PM.  If I do, it's to help a client visualize or instruct how the final file should look, but I never use the crop marks to actually crop a file; just not part of my workflow.

Steps:
1. Draw a cropping rectangle on a .NEF file on Machine 'A', my capture machine.
2. Copy the .NEF, .XMP, and .JPG to Machine 'B', my production/editing machine.  (The .XMP is not actually necessary to repro the behavior here).
3.Open the folder containing the same file on Machine 'B', in PhotoMechanic and clear the crop.  Clearing the crop marks was accomplished by hitting the "clear" button and/or hitting <shift C>.   The crop marks were visually removed.
4. While on Machine 'B', open the file in Nikon Capture NX-D and generate a matching .TIFF.  Even though the crop marks were supposedly cleared, the cropped version is what is shown in Nikon Capture.

Issues:
1. The .TIFF is cropped according to the marks that were cleared in PM on Machine 'B', even though PM appeared to remove the crop marks.  Shield and crop rectangle were clear.
2. Clicking on the .TIFF and the cropped version defined from Machine 'A' is opened in Adobe Camera Raw, *NOT* PS proper.  this will happen by clicking on the file in Windows, or via PM (when invoking the file editor).
3. This double-issue (cropped and always opening in ACR) persists on files edited in PS and saved (regardless of format/.TIF/.PSD).  Subsequent opens of the TIFF still open in ACR.
4. This is true whether the sidecar .XMP file is copied to Machine 'B' or not.

Solution:
1. Go back to the original capture machine, Machine 'A', load the folder with the marked file again in PM, and clear the crop marks there.
2. Then copy the cleared .NEF to Machine 'B', generate a new TIFF via Capture NX-D.  The TIFF will open in PS proper, and w/o being cropped.

Said differently, user has to use Machine 'A' to clear out crops before copying the file to Machine 'B' for editing.

This necessitates making "clean" duplicate files on Machine 'A' so the crops won't persist, and then copying the clean dups to Machine 'B' for editing.

Hoping for insights...

Thanks!

[Kirk Baker]

Jerry,

In my captures, I rarely use the crop tool in PM.  If I do, it's to help a client visualize or instruct how the final file should look, but I never use the crop marks to actually crop a file; just not part of my workflow.

Steps:
1. Draw a cropping rectangle on a .NEF file on Machine 'A', my capture machine.
2. Copy the .NEF, .XMP, and .JPG to Machine 'B', my production/editing machine.  (The .XMP is not actually necessary to repro the behavior here).
3. Open the folder containing the same file on Machine 'B', in Photo Mechanic and clear the crop.  Clearing the crop marks was accomplished by hitting the "clear" button and/or hitting <shift C>.   The crop marks were visually removed.
4. While on Machine 'B', open the file in Nikon Capture NX-D and generate a matching .TIFF.  Even though the crop marks were supposedly cleared, the cropped version is what is shown in Nikon Capture.

Photo Mechanic's crops are "Adobe" crops.  Adobe created the XMP tags for the format of the crop and we are compatible with them.  If NX-D is picking up on those crops then NX-D is also compatible with "Adobe" crops.  But as you said, you cleared them.  If the data is gone then I think NX-D is having some other issue.  If you can give me a sample file that exhibits the problem, I can investigate the file to see if it has any vestiges of a crop in it.

Issues:
1. The .TIFF is cropped according to the marks that were cleared in PM on Machine 'B', even though PM appeared to remove the crop marks.  Shield and crop rectangle were clear.
2. Clicking on the .TIFF and the cropped version defined from Machine 'A' is opened in Adobe Camera Raw, *NOT* PS proper.  this will happen by clicking on the file in Windows, or via PM (when invoking the file editor).

That's a preference you can change in Photoshop.  Photo Mechanic is not causing this behavior.

3. This double-issue (cropped and always opening in ACR) persists on files edited in PS and saved (regardless of format/.TIF/.PSD).  Subsequent opens of the TIFF still open in ACR.

The file handling preference should take care of the latter, but for the former, please provide a sample file that I can investigate.

Solution:
1. Go back to the original capture machine, Machine 'A', load the folder with the marked file again in PM, and clear the crop marks there.
2. Then copy the cleared .NEF to Machine 'B', generate a new TIFF via Capture NX-D.  The TIFF will open in PS proper, and w/o being cropped.

Said differently, user has to use Machine 'A' to clear out crops before copying the file to Machine 'B' for editing.

That seems very strange to me, but having a sample file to investigate will end the confusion.

-Kirk

[Hayo Baan]

The tiff opening in ACR (or not) behaviour is determined by the fact whether the file contains “settings” (or not).  So removing the crop can indeed prevent it from being opened in ACR (if that crop was the only setting). You can alter this behaviour in Photoshop so tiffs (or jpgs) always open in PS, even if they have settings.

[Jerry and Lois Photo]

I have been absolutely buried with work demand for the holiday, so replying has been very very difficult.

Kirk, I've added an example NEF, and resulting TIFF to the Dropbox you and I have used.  This issue is a showstopper for me, on this image (there are many others).

Steps
1. Assistant shows .NEF+.jpg to client in PM
2. Client instructs assistant on approx crop desired, drawing a crop box.
3. at a later date and in PM, I attempt to clear the crop mark on a copy of the NEF on my production machine. 
4. It appears to have been cleared.
5. I open the NEF in Nikon Capture, and the full image is shown.
6. I generate a TIF from NC.
7. I attempt to open the TIF in Photoshop.
8. Regardless of the file extension, the file ALWAYS opens in Adobe Camera Raw, not PS like other TIFFs do.
9. ISSUE:  The image always opens as how it was originally and temporarily cropped when the shot was taken. 
10. ISSUE:  the rest of the image is gone, only the CROPPED version is what I have to work with.  NOT good.
11. I went back to the computer with the original NEF, and cleared the crop marks there in PM.
12. I opened this in NC, then saved as 16 bit TIF.
13. Opening this supposedly clear-of-crop-marked TIF on PS on any computer always opens as the cropped version in ACR.
14. I do NOT know how to produce the uncropped version.  Image is needed by tomorrow morning.  Hoping you can do your usual magic now...

Additional comments:  Hayo and Kirk:  It does NOT matter what extension the resulting file may have, it will open in ACR.  Since the settings persist, is there another way to clear out the "settings" and get around this blocking issue?

Also:  I went back to the original capture machine, opened up PM, cleared out the original crop marks, and THEN - created a new crop.  Then, opened the file in Nikon Capture (which shows the original image as always), generated a TIFF.

The ORIGINAL crop marks still show up when opening the TIFF.  They are somehow locked into the original NEF.

Repeating:  If there's a way to purge this from the TIFF, please instruct. 

Thanks

[Jerry and Lois Photo]

Update:

1. Changed Prefs in PS CC 2022: 
     a. Preferences/Camera Raw prefs/file handling: IGNORE SIDECAR XMP files.
     b. TIFF handling:  disable TIFF support

THIS WORKS. 
1. It requires both of the above setting changes. 
2. It still allows me to pass TIFF files into ACR, if they're already open in PS CC (not ACR).