What does <none> mean in the browse and filter tools?

[Odd Skjaeveland]

I should probably apologize for not being a very active user of the PM+ public betas, but I hope to improve a bit.

The other day I installed PM+ on my Windows 10 laptop and copied a folder from a Capture One session containing approximately a thousand images from a recent trip to Manila. I did ingest the images to the C1 session using PM6, but had not yet done any metadata work after ingest. I had PM+ create a new database and scan the copy of the C1 session's Capture folder where source image files live in dated sub folders.

Now, the term "<none>" seen in the Filter/Browse tool confuses me. I would expect it to mean "not set", "not defined", "empty" or similar akin to SQL NULL or perhaps the empty string "". My expectation is likely wrong, PM+ (build 4155) browser says 297 of 1030 images fit (IPTC) Headline <none>. The Headline field does indeed have text in quite a few of those 297 images, and PM+ shows the existing text. Granted, some of the 297 images have no text in the Headline field, I would expect those images to be alone in the set of Headline <none>. The image files are DNGs and JPGs, all metadata (excluding those added by the cameras) are added using PM6 at ingest time or later using PM+. Selecting one of the other items in the list of Browse (or Filter) alternatives appears to work as I would expect. Same when selecting multiple items.

The topic http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13035.0 does not shed the light I obviously need. At this time, I do not understand "<none>".

I reindexed the database, reticked Search and Add/Modify, and I restarted PM+ (I have clear cache on Exit enabled). I attach two screen dumps that hopefully show what confuses me.

 

[Odd Skjaeveland]

I guess the answer is that I first need to use Catalog -> Scan to Catalog... whenever I want to use the browse/filter tools, PM+ does not keep the database in sync with changes PM+ makes to metadata. I probably knew, or at least should have known.

[Kirk Baker]

I guess the answer is that I first need to use Catalog -> Scan to Catalog... whenever I want to use the browse/filter tools, PM+ does not keep the database in sync with changes PM+ makes to metadata. I probably knew, or at least should have known.

If an image isn't in any catalog then metadata changes are not tracked (because they're not in a catalog).  You must add new images to your catalog(s) and then changes will be kept up-to-date.

-Kirk

[Odd Skjaeveland]

If an image isn't in any catalog then metadata changes are not tracked (because they're not in a catalog).  You must add new images to your catalog(s) and then changes will be kept up-to-date.

Obviously. Until now I have been under the impression that the initial Scan to Catalog did that for me. Not a single image was added after the initial scan.

I also believed the green dot indicated "in catalog".

Further, I believed images accessible via PM+ Organizer-> Browser (or Filter) are in the catalog.

I never tried to use PM+ Organizer Browse (or Filter) to access images that I know are not in a catalog. Your comment indicates that my attached screenshots somehow show images not in the catalog. I'll try to find out how I managed to do that.

Hmm, I need to start from scratch and relearn the few things I optimistically thought I understood

Sorry for the trouble.

[Kirk Baker]

If an image isn't in any catalog then metadata changes are not tracked (because they're not in a catalog).  You must add new images to your catalog(s) and then changes will be kept up-to-date.

Obviously. Until now I have been under the impression that the initial Scan to Catalog did that for me. Not a single image was added after the initial scan.

I also believed the green dot indicated "in catalog".

Further, I believed images accessible via PM+ Organizer-> Browser (or Filter) are in the catalog.

I never tried to use PM+ Organizer Browse (or Filter) to access images that I know are not in a catalog. Your comment indicates that my attached screenshots somehow show images not in the catalog. I'll try to find out how I managed to do that.

Hmm, I need to start from scratch and relearn the few things I optimistically thought I understood

Sorry for the trouble.

I'm a bit confused then.  Were the images that had metadata in the fields you described earlier actually in one of the active catalog(s) at the time you changed the metadata?

It's beginning to sound like a bug to me.  Can you describe a set of steps that reproduces the problem, please?

Thanks,

-Kirk

[Odd Skjaeveland]

I'm a bit confused then.  Were the images that had metadata in the fields you described earlier actually in one of the active catalog(s) at the time you changed the metadata?

Yes, of course. Like I wrote: Scan one root folder (a Capture One session) with sub folders to Catalog, then I changed/added metadata using the dialog shown in attached images. The Headline <none> count never changed as I changed/added Headline data in images and clicked "Save & >" to advance to next image.

A new Scan to Catalog got the number right, as stated in my second post.

Can you describe a set of steps that reproduces the problem, please?

The following steps reproduce it on my system (stock laptop Win10).

a) Start PM+ and navigate to Organizer->Browse->IPTC->Headline to see the Headline statistics 
b) Click <none>  (I am now down to 60 images because I learned to rescan..., it currently shows <none> 60)
c) Click the "i"-button on an image thumbnail
d) Enter text in the Headline field in the Metadata dialog (see my first post attachments)
e) Click "Save & >" to advance to the next image (Metadata dialog now addresses next image without Headline info)
f) Observe that the <none> count did NOT decrement.
g) Repeat steps d-g... if more images without Headline

h) Do Scan to Catalog to get the correct Headline statistics

 

[Bill Kelly]

Thanks. This does appear to be a bug, and has been added to our internal issue tracker.


P.S.

whenever I want to use the browse/filter tools, PM+ does not keep the database in sync with changes PM+ makes to metadata.

To clarify: any changes made from within PM+ are intended to sync automatically to relevant catalogs.

[Odd Skjaeveland]

To clarify: any changes made from within PM+ are intended to sync automatically to relevant catalogs.

Good to know for sure, thanks.

[Kirk Baker]

B14 should fix this problem.

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13110.0

Please try it and let me know if the problem persists.

-Kirk

[Odd Skjaeveland]

B14 should fix this problem.

No, B14 does not fix this problem.

I downloaded PM Beta 14, installed and reindexed the database, then proceeded to enter headline text in a couple of images as described before. The Headline <none> count does NOT change. Restarted PM+ a few times, but it makes no difference. I reindexed the database, but that does not appear to have any effect.

A (re)Scan to Catalog works as before, the Headline <none> drops to the correct count.

The fix announced as:
 
"• Fixed: Item counts for <none> fields in Filters/Browse now also track fields that are empty, rather than only fields that are entirely missing. (E.g. when an IPTC field like Headline has no text, it will now be counted as <none>.)"

apparently targets a different problem. Including Headline containing an empty string in the <none> set, in contrast to just including NULLs, can only increase the <none> count if I understand this correctly (which I probably do not). What I see is that records where Headline field that in SQL terms IS NOT NULL AND != '' are still counted in the <none> set.

Edit: Fixed a stupid typo by adding the word NOT in the second sentence: The Headline <none> count does NOT change.

 

[Hayo Baan]

Perhaps related: I noticed that the counts (for any clause) do not reflect a change in metadata. Browsing the changed clause, however does show the correct result (or lack thereof, in case the original clause was changed).

Example: browse by city, change the city name of a couple of images, the counts don't update while the browse results themselves do.

[Odd Skjaeveland]

B14 should fix this problem.

Not for me, but B15 appears to be OK. Thanks.

[Odd Skjaeveland]

B14 should fix this problem.

Not for me, but B15 appears to be OK. Thanks.

Sorry, wrong observation. The problem still exists in B15. I confirm Hayo's observation, other IPTC fields are affected as well.