Author Topic: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus  (Read 14333 times)

Offline OldRadioGuy

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DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« on: May 18, 2021, 02:51:05 PM »
I recently had a problem with a file processed by DxO PhotoLab. In response to a question from DxO Support, I indicated that I launch a file in DPL from Photo Mechanic Plus.

I then received a reply that included:

"...Because all of the modules used in both DxO PhotoLab and PureRAW are created using extremely precise measurements of actual output files from specific camera and lens configurations, we do not recommend using any other programs with your original camera files prior to using PhotoLab or PureRAW. In the past, we have received reports from other customer telling us that Photo Mechanic caused unexpected and unsupported changes to occur to their photo files that cannot be accommodated in PhotoLab. In these prior cases, the customers avoided use of Photo Mechanic prior to using their photo files in PhotoLab. Since PureRAW is based on the same set of modules, the same applies to PureRAW..."

Makes no sense to me.

Bob
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Olympus E-M1 Mark III, Olympus PEN-F

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 09:14:10 PM »
Bob,

I recently had a problem with a file processed by DxO PhotoLab. In response to a question from DxO Support, I indicated that I launch a file in DPL from Photo Mechanic Plus.

I then received a reply that included:

"...Because all of the modules used in both DxO PhotoLab and PureRAW are created using extremely precise measurements of actual output files from specific camera and lens configurations, we do not recommend using any other programs with your original camera files prior to using PhotoLab or PureRAW. In the past, we have received reports from other customer telling us that Photo Mechanic caused unexpected and unsupported changes to occur to their photo files that cannot be accommodated in PhotoLab. In these prior cases, the customers avoided use of Photo Mechanic prior to using their photo files in PhotoLab. Since PureRAW is based on the same set of modules, the same applies to PureRAW..."

Sounds like a cop-out to me.  You're welcome to send me the photo that you had trouble opening in DxO's software and I'll see if it's been modified.

If they'd follow the TIFF standard and use the offsets in the files instead of assuming the location of key data then their parser would have no problems.  Regardless, the modifications that PM does to RAW files when embedding metadata can be undone by using the "Revert TIFF-based RAW to original" command on the Tools menu.  If that fixes the problem, then their parsing of RAW files is naïve.

-Kirk

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2021, 06:43:18 AM »
I use PhotoMechanic Plus with Photolab 4 and I see no problems that I can't handle with the integration. Photolab kan see the metadata added by PMP without even an import and if I export from PL to a DNG or JPEG everything works as expected what I have seen

......BUT, there is an issue I have tried to get you to solve:

If I have both PMP and PL open and select say five images in PMP and chose to edit them all in PL with the Edit-link in PMP Photolab it only opens one of them BUT if i expose both windows side by side and drag and drop them from PMP to PM it works with all five images. Quite strange.

I would be very glad if your people at Camera Bits could sort this out together with DXO. Maybee it's DXO and PL that has these limitations but since there are two of your softwares interacting you might have to talk. You have all the reasons to solve this since Photolab and PhotoMechanic is an extremely powerful combo. If you really get this integration to work and you can synk your efforts with DXO there will be more people who won't hesitate to leave Adobe and Lightroom for good.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2021, 12:38:56 PM »
I use PhotoMechanic Plus with Photolab 4 and I see no problems that I can't handle with the integration. Photolab kan see the metadata added by PMP without even an import and if I export from PL to a DNG or JPEG everything works as expected what I have seen

......BUT, there is an issue I have tried to get you to solve:

If I have both PMP and PL open and select say five images in PMP and chose to edit them all in PL with the Edit-link in PMP Photolab it only opens one of them BUT if i expose both windows side by side and drag and drop them from PMP to PM it works with all five images. Quite strange.

I would be very glad if your people at Camera Bits could sort this out together with DXO. Maybee it's DXO and PL that has these limitations but since there are two of your softwares interacting you might have to talk. You have all the reasons to solve this since Photolab and PhotoMechanic is an extremely powerful combo. If you really get this integration to work and you can synk your efforts with DXO there will be more people who won't hesitate to leave Adobe and Lightroom for good.

Photo Mechanic uses the OS-provided "LaunchServices" to cause an application to open a list of files on macOS.  On Windows ShellExecute() is used to open files in an application, unless that application is Photoshop or Photoshop Elements, in which case we simulate a drag and drop operation to get the files to open.

What OS are you using?

-Kirk

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2021, 01:24:01 AM »
Windows 10

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2021, 01:29:19 AM »
Kirk have you managed to verify the problem?

When both programmes are open in Windows 10, Photolab just opens one of a number of selected files in PMP when using the Edit-call  in PMP but when using drag and drop from PMP to Photolab it works.

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2021, 09:11:26 AM »
Kirk have you managed to verify the problem?

We don't own their software.

When both programmes are open in Windows 10, Photolab just opens one of a number of selected files in PMP when using the Edit-call  in PMP but when using drag and drop from PMP to Photolab it works.

We'd have to add code to identify their 'main' window and simulate a drag and drop operation to it.  If they have a trial version, I can use it to figure out what window would be the correct one to send the files to via drag and drop.

-Kirk

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2021, 05:36:44 PM »
Stenis,

I have started a trial of DxO PhotoLab and I have managed to get Photo Mechanic (including Plus) to send photos to DxO PhotoLab and it shows the images in the thumbstrip and selects the first item in the set of images sent to it.

I can make you a Windows build if you'd like to give it a try.

-Kirk

EDIT: I also have it working well with DxO PureRAW.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 06:12:55 PM by Kirk Baker »

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2021, 02:47:47 PM »
Please do!

I have tried it once more.
I select 10 images in PMPlus and tries both "Edit Photo" and "Edit Photo with" with the same result: it opens just one single image in Photolab.
It doesn´t matter which one I use of the two "Edit Photo" I use the result is the same: only one image in the filmstrip is imported - it should have been 10.

BUT - if I open the two windows (Photolab in one and PMPlus in the other) and drag the 10 selected images to the "filmstrip" i Photolab, 10 images gets imported and the first is opened for editing.

Drag and drop is a little more cumbersome to use and it would be much more user frienly and efficient to be able to just right click and select "Edit Photo".

Photolab is such a killer combo with PMPlus that all Photolab Users have been waiting for since Photolabs own solution is pretty archaic and useless.

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2021, 03:02:56 PM »
If you can solve this problem with an emulation of a drag and drop process I guess it´s fine.

Even if I don´t really understand the people who import images from PMPlus into Lightroom, some do.
And some have also found that DxO PureRaw (an automatic black box version of Photolab 4) gives a better image quality than Lightroom Develop do.

So even for the Lightroom users using DxO PureRaw a fix of this problem would mean a much better and more efficient workflow

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2021, 03:23:49 PM »
Stenis,

If you can solve this problem with an emulation of a drag and drop process I guess it´s fine.

Even if I don´t really understand the people who import images from PMPlus into Lightroom, some do.
And some have also found that DxO PureRaw (an automatic black box version of Photolab 4) gives a better image quality than Lightroom Develop do.

So even for the Lightroom users using DxO PureRaw a fix of this problem would mean a much better and more efficient workflow

Please try this build: https://www.camerabits.com/download/PMPlusSetupR5898_9ba8e711.msi

You won't see any drag and drop occur.  It should just cause the DxO app to come forward with the selected images shown in the thumbstrip and one in the preview.

-Kirk

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2021, 06:09:47 AM »
Lovely Kirk!

I'll try this as fast as possible but you'll might have to wait until tuesday next week for a proper feed back  because I'm on a small island in the Baltic Sea outside Stockholm witout any access  to my Photomechanic  and Photolab PC.

Thank you so far for the very quick response on our problem. Your very good service is a pretty strong selling point too for Camera Bits and Photomechanic Plus. I'm really thrilled to get a working solution for this pretty annoying little problem.

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2021, 02:43:27 PM »
I recently had a problem with a file processed by DxO PhotoLab. In response to a question from DxO Support, I indicated that I launch a file in DPL from Photo Mechanic Plus.

I then received a reply that included:

"...Because all of the modules used in both DxO PhotoLab and PureRAW are created using extremely precise measurements of actual output files from specific camera and lens configurations, we do not recommend using any other programs with your original camera files prior to using PhotoLab or PureRAW. In the past, we have received reports from other customer telling us that Photo Mechanic caused unexpected and unsupported changes to occur to their photo files that cannot be accommodated in PhotoLab. In these prior cases, the customers avoided use of Photo Mechanic prior to using their photo files in PhotoLab. Since PureRAW is based on the same set of modules, the same applies to PureRAW..."

Makes no sense to me.

Bob

Kirk and Bob

A thing that can happen is that an image you know you have updated in Photolab is not updated automatically in PMPlus.
In that case it will not reflect the changes you have made in for example Photolab, before you make a "Scan to Catalog".

Kirk, I know there is a feature request posted about this and I have lifted it myself in a conversation with one of your staff.
Since i know how the system works now I can handle this in my workflow but it would be much better to at least give us an option to handle this automatically.

Once I worked with the Norwegian enterprise DAM-system FotoWare (not misspelled just norwegian spelling :-).
I guess like many other enterprise DAM FotoWare - like PhotoMechanic - index everything below the topfolder you point at where all the images lays you will incorporate in your the catalog you just are about to create.
The difference though is that FotoWare then activates a folder watch on every folder beneth the topfolder. (through the file systems logs)
After that every change of a file will result in an automatic update of the index.

In PMPlus you have a "folder watch"-function in the ingest-system but that's it.
Would it be possible to get an automatic update in Photomechanic too?

With that said, the DxO-representative have to get updated on the fact that PM or PM Plus does not affect the very images and the image quality at all from my experience.
It is important though that you establish a work flow that works.
Personally i develop the RAW-images first in Photolab.

Then I apply all the metadata I want to apply in PM Plus and I mean all!
After that I export all the JPEGS from all the RAW I'm working with in Photolab.
Finally I run a Scan to Catalog of the main folder I have been working with and the subfolders too.
That's it!

When I do like this I can't see any problems at all with the integration between Photolab 4 and PM Plus 6.
If I do like this, the few IPTC-fields Photolab's rudimentary IPTC-implementation displays correctly in Photolab 4, even without an import.
I NEVER update any keywords in Photolab 4 at all.
All the metadata jobs will be handled more effectively and extensively in PM Plus that supports the entire IPTC-schema instead of just a couple of elements open in Photolab 4. When I export and reexport JPEG-files I can't see Photolab 4 corrupts the metadata in any way so far.
I can't see that is an issue at all.

The only thing I don't think is to my liking is that we have to remember to run a "Scan to Catalog" manually.
I'm sure quite a few users might forget to do that from time to time.
 

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2021, 03:13:34 PM »
Stenis,

The only thing I don't think is to my liking is that we have to remember to run a "Scan to Catalog" manually.
I'm sure quite a few users might forget to do that from time to time.

I would suggest using Catalog Sync instead of Scan to Catalog, but it also is not automatic.

-Kirk

Offline Stenis

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Re: DxO PhotoLab and Photo Mechanic Plus
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2021, 03:35:01 PM »
Stenis,

If you can solve this problem with an emulation of a drag and drop process I guess it´s fine.

Even if I don´t really understand the people who import images from PMPlus into Lightroom, some do.
And some have also found that DxO PureRaw (an automatic black box version of Photolab 4) gives a better image quality than Lightroom Develop do.

So even for the Lightroom users using DxO PureRaw a fix of this problem would mean a much better and more efficient workflow

Please try this build: https://www.camerabits.com/download/PMPlusSetupR5898_9ba8e711.msi

You won't see any drag and drop occur.  It should just cause the DxO app to come forward with the selected images shown in the thumbstrip and one in the preview.

-Kirk



Hi Kirk!

Your fix i build 5998 seem to work fine and solve the problem where only one image earlier could be transfered to Photolab 4 at the time using the "Edit"-function.

- If I just select one image in PMPlus only the Edit alternatives for one image occurs in two version though (maybee one is specified under preferences and the other works through Windows fileattributes I dont know.

Result: In both cases only one image is imported and that's fine and expected.


- If I select five images I see both the choises for single image import ("Edit Photo" and "Edit Photo with DxO.Photolab.exe") and the choises for multiimage import ("Edit selected photos" and "Edit selected photos with DxO.Photolab.exe"

With five images the multi Edit imports the pictures right away in Photolab.
From six images and up there is a dialog displayed saying "Do you really want to edit all of the selected photos" with two choises: Yes and No.
If I chose "Y" the selected number of images are imported ti Photolab. That's also fine and expected

So it definitely works but do we really need four different "Edit"-variants?
Maybee max two are needed "Edit selected Photo/Photos" (Windows file suffix triggered) and/or  "Edit selected Photo/Photos with DxO.Photolab.exe"
Both these last funktions can handle both a single selection image import and and a multi selection import.

.. and do we really need the dialog? Doesn't it just slow down the workflow?

... but this is just a suggestion

The important thing was that you actually listend and fixed it and made the integration a lot better and more seamless between Photolab 4 and PM Plus 6 than before! Thank's a lot! Hope this will be part of a new release soon.