Author Topic: Subscription Model  (Read 52850 times)

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #135 on: March 30, 2024, 11:16:42 AM »
I'm currently trialing the subscription based PM, but not seeing anything new at this point.
At some point in the future I would love to be amazed by cool new and useful features and keep the subscription.

However, since I almost used my trial time, I have a suggestion...

It would be great to have a trial reset for existing users and licence holders, every couple of month or so. You know we have a working version already. This way I can could come back and see what's new and try it again. And again... and hopefully finally give up and sub.

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24985
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #136 on: March 30, 2024, 11:52:35 AM »
Max,

I'm currently trialing the subscription based PM, but not seeing anything new at this point.
At some point in the future I would love to be amazed by cool new and useful features and keep the subscription.

However, since I almost used my trial time, I have a suggestion...

It would be great to have a trial reset for existing users and licence holders, every couple of month or so. You know we have a working version already. This way I can could come back and see what's new and try it again. And again... and hopefully finally give up and sub.

You'll be able to subscribe again in the future if you want to.  Cancelling one time won't keep you from subscribing again in the future.

-Kirk

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #137 on: March 30, 2024, 03:43:19 PM »
I know I can subscribe, but question iswill I get another 14 day trial before getting charged? This is what I'm taking about.

Say if I don't see a reason to sub right now, but would like to check in 3 months, my current understanding is that I would need to pay for a month just to have a look if anything changed. Right?

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24985
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #138 on: March 30, 2024, 03:46:00 PM »
Max,

I know I can subscribe, but question is will I get another 14 day trial before getting charged?

Yes, you'll get another trial period.

-Kirk

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #139 on: March 30, 2024, 03:56:04 PM »
That's great! How long is the cooldown time for this ability? :)

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24985
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #140 on: March 30, 2024, 04:06:25 PM »
Max,

That's great! How long is the cooldown time for this ability? :)

The system will not allow you to repeatedly subscribe and cancel.  Eventually it won't let you start a new subscription.

-Kirk

Offline greg2024

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #141 on: March 30, 2024, 08:09:00 PM »
Check the math on the new perpetual vs yearly subscription. With perpetual you get the same updates and support as yearly subscription for the first year. If Apple doesn't make a breaking change for another 7 months after the year of support, then every month after that you are ahead compared to yearly subscription. Could I live without 7 months or more  of Photo Mechanic updates. I think yes. Going with the new perpetual is the way I'm betting. This works well for Camera Bits as well, because they get the infusion of cash up front, hopefully to get to work on their roadmap and perhaps some increases for their staff. With a bit more financial flexibility maybe the development team can have the luxury of making some of the platform (see Apple silicon) and feature updates that have been asked for more quickly. Perhaps there will be room for creative solutions that end up being more productive in the long run. It also makes for happy customers. That's what I've experienced.

I went though a raft of trials over the 30 day trial (the old one) before committing. I seriously disliked other products that turned my keyword libraries into a mess of mixed flat and hierarchical words. Going with Photo Mechanic I can use develop and edit software that I prefer without sacrificing ingest speed and accuracy. Photo Mechanic is very good on accuracy, ingest and organizing, enough better that I couldn't find a good compromise elsewhere. I used Photo Mechanic as a reference standard to compare how other products fared.

To clarify, I might sound like a shill for Camera Bits, but I have surprisingly paid little attention to them over the many years I have used a variety of the photo software solutions. I'm retired from the business of developing software and managing its development in an industry totally different than photography.

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #142 on: March 31, 2024, 01:18:38 AM »

The system will not allow you to repeatedly subscribe and cancel.  Eventually it won't let you start a new subscription.

-Kirk

Again, some clarity would be great here.
How many time can I try before it declines? How often can I do it?
I used my first trial, so when can I try again?

Offline vale

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #143 on: March 31, 2024, 03:50:31 AM »

The system will not allow you to repeatedly subscribe and cancel.  Eventually it won't let you start a new subscription.

-Kirk

Again, some clarity would be great here.
How many time can I try before it declines? How often can I do it?
I used my first trial, so when can I try again?


that's a very strange request.....
but, in theory, as long as you can generate enough credit cards and emails, you can go all the time. is it worth it though?

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #144 on: March 31, 2024, 04:32:45 AM »
that's a very strange request.....
but, in theory, as long as you can generate enough credit cards and emails, you can go all the time. is it worth it though?

I know I can hack my way in. But, I'd rather have an official trial getting reset every few months. Seems like an easy solution, especially for people who already have PM licence. I have two - PM and PMplus

Offline Kirk Baker

  • Senior Software Engineer
  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Superhero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24985
    • View Profile
    • Camera Bits, Inc.
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #145 on: March 31, 2024, 07:58:42 AM »
Max,

that's a very strange request.....
but, in theory, as long as you can generate enough credit cards and emails, you can go all the time. is it worth it though?

I know I can hack my way in. But, I'd rather have an official trial getting reset every few months. Seems like an easy solution, especially for people who already have PM licence. I have two - PM and PMplus

Wouldn't simply monitoring our Announcements board for new releases and looking at the new features be enough to know whether you should take a look?

I do not know the inner workings of FastSpring's system for keeping repeat subscription cancelers out.  You would have to ask them and they may not wish to reveal those details for you.

That said, if for some reason you are kept out of being able to start a new subscription, contact our sales folks and they should be able to accommodate you.

-Kirk

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #146 on: March 31, 2024, 12:01:49 PM »
I'm looking forward those announcements

Offline TomP

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #147 on: April 01, 2024, 03:30:21 AM »
TL;DR The proposed prices are too high

Like many I've been a customer for decades, back as far as when Kirk provided support via the Rob Galbraith forums. I think it was Photomechanic 3 in those days. The best part of 20 years later and we're at version 6, so Camera Bits has had the initial purchase price and three upgrade fees from me. After all of that time PM from my perspective is basically unchanged and I have appreciated that as it hasn't broken my workflow, required me to learn new interfaces, been utterly reliable and top notch support has been there from Kirk and colleagues. The counterpoint is that because development has been so slow Camera Bits has had relatively little income from me or anyone else. If we'd been at version 15 by now the financial picture would have been different.

Now we're in the position of facing a sizeable subscription or a huge increase in the perpetual licence. Unfortunately in my view PM is too late to the table. Many if not most customers will have Creative Cloud subscriptions and be comparing value for money. My Adobe photography plan includes two alternatives to PM, Bridge and Lightroom, which are effectively 'free' with Photoshop and all for a much lower subscription. Both are capable of replacing PM for many users. Of course there are some unique features in PM which will be indispensable to some but they may well be a relatively small percentage of the customer base. For everyone else there are alternatives they're already paying for. I'd be happy with a subscription fee of 30% of the intended one and would call that fair value. Otherwise I'll be running 6 into the ground while checking in from time to time to see if genuinely useful and unique new features appear with sufficient frequency to tun my head and woo me back. In the meantime, thanks to all at Camera Bits, it's been great.

Offline PabloGG

  • Camera Bits Staff
  • Newcomer
  • *****
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #148 on: April 01, 2024, 04:33:09 PM »
Allow me to begin by expressing our gratitude for the longstanding participation of the Camera Bits community in our forum. It has served as a valuable platform for discussing technical matters concerning our products and workflows. We cherish the years of engagement and anticipate many more fruitful discussions to come.

Regarding inquiries or discussions concerning our new subscription sales model, we recommend directing your queries to our support channel. There, our sales and marketing team will be available to engage with you directly.
https://docs.camerabits.com/support/tickets/new

Kirk, Jerry, Andrew, and the entire technical team eagerly await the opportunity to sustain meaningful dialogue in this forum, fostering further technical discussions for years to come. The technical team will not be responding to sales related conversations moving forward and hope you are able to resolve your sales related issues via the sales channel.
Best regards,
-Pablo (on behalf of the Camera Bits technical team)

Offline Max Lemesh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #149 on: April 02, 2024, 01:35:59 AM »
I guess we going to see you more often here, Pablo )

General discussion forum perfectly covers the issue most have with subscription, no need to create a ticket for general discussion and hide these concerns under wraps