IPTC Keywords from Lightroom to PM

[RichWagner]

No.  ;-)



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[Kirk Baker]

Rich,

The first thing I notice is that you don't have PM set to add Structured Keywords to the hierarchical keywords field only.  Try setting that checkbox and see if things improve somewhat.

I think that PM will have to ignore any single keywords that also exist in any Structured Keywords path in order to minimize the duplication issue.

-Kirk

[RichWagner]

The first thing I notice is that you don't have PM set to add Structured Keywords to the hierarchical keywords field only.  Try setting that checkbox and see if things improve somewhat.

I think that PM will have to ignore any single keywords that also exist in any Structured Keywords path in order to minimize the duplication issue.

Making that change is No Bueno.  Data gets dropped.





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[Kirk Baker]

Rich,

The files in the XMP Files 2.zip are exactly the same as the ones in the original XMP Files.zip.  Are you sure you sent the correct files?

-Kirk

[RichWagner]

Arrrgghhh... trying to do too many things at once.  Sorry.

--Rich


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[Kirk Baker]

Rich,

Thanks for the updated files.

So in a perfect world, you would add Structural Keywords and they would be written in their hierarchical form in the lr:hierarchicalSubject field, the unique individual items in each path would be written to the dc:subject field, and when PM would reopen the metadata any keywords that matched portions of a Structured Keywords path would be omitted.  When rewritten, the Structured Keywords would be flattened yet again and put into the dc:subject field such that no 'keyword gain' would occur.

Is that correct?  The MWG doesn't even recognize the lr:hierarchicalSubject field and moreover their suggested hierarchical representation is painfully verbose.  Adobe Photoshop Lightroom is the 800lb. gorilla in the room that we have to work with so we're willing to do quite a bit to improve interoperability but we have to know what is going to work.

Thanks,

-Kirk
 

[RichWagner]

Kirk,

I agree - except that in a perfect world, Lightroom would use the XML schema exactly as you have, and this issue would be resolved. I agree that this new MGW schema brings zero benefit to the table. My guess is that Adobe took their poorly thought out system to the MGW and used their gorilla-clout to have it immortalized as an MWG recommendation, to everyone else's detriment.  I tried for several years to get the Adobe teams to improve their metadata handling, to little avail.  So yea, I think it is likely the photo community is stuck with it, even though it breaks a lot of very good software, yours included.

What you describe sounds reasonable.  I have several plane flights tomorrow and I'll try to walk it through and see if I find any potential problems with the approach you describe, or an alternative approach. I will also make some specific test files to try to help follow exactly where data is ending up. It is very frustrating and a waste of resources, though, to have to even consider patches like this. Thanks for listening.

--Rich

[ccclapp]

Hi

Has this issue been fully resolved, or are there still issues using keywords in both LR and PM and going round-trip between both?  This may determine if I utilize PM (which I would like to do).

A somewhat related question (which I can re-post separately if you prefer):

Now that LR uses face tagging and does so by populating a designated key word parent folder with the face-tag-names, I would like to use a variable on PM to populate the "Persons Shown" field with all the names (keywords under the designated parent KW) of people in the image.  Can this be done?

Thank you!!

Thanks

[Kirk Baker]

Has this issue been fully resolved, or are there still issues using keywords in both LR and PM and going round-trip between both?  This may determine if I utilize PM (which I would like to do).

To my knowledge, nothing has changed in this regard.

A somewhat related question (which I can re-post separately if you prefer):

Now that LR uses face tagging and does so by populating a designated key word parent folder with the face-tag-names, I would like to use a variable on PM to populate the "Persons Shown" field with all the names (keywords under the designated parent KW) of people in the image.  Can this be done?

Possibly, but it's not something that will be done in PM5 or PM6.

PM5 is in maintenance and PM6 has a fixed feature list.

-Kirk

[ccclapp]

Thank you Kirk for your speedy reply.

So, to be sure I understand:

As to #1: LR/PM KWs Uniformity:  if one uses both flat and hierarchical KW in LR and PM, there will be less than 100% compliance between the two if going "round-trip" one or more times between LR/PM, correct?

As to #2: Populating a field with multiple KWs:  It is not possible to use variables to populate a single field with all the children of a given parent KW in an image (in this case all the KWs (of names), which reside under the KW parent called People), correct?

Just being sure I didn't misunderstand.

Thanks very much!

[Kirk Baker]

So, to be sure I understand:

As to #1: LR/PM KWs Uniformity:  if one uses both flat and hierarchical KW in LR and PM, there will be less than 100% compliance between the two if going "round-trip" one or more times between LR/PM, correct?

Correct.

As to #2: Populating a field with multiple KWs:  It is not possible to use variables to populate a single field with all the children of a given parent KW in an image (in this case all the KWs (of names), which reside under the KW parent called People), correct?

There is no way to use the {keywords} variable to pick and choose parts of the string of words other than what is offered by Variables Substring Extraction (which allows one to pull out defined substrings from a larger string of characters.)

I don't know how we would even offer an automated way of picking out a portion of a group of keywords and extract portions of a path.  We certainly can't have PM stop while evaluating the IPTC Stationery Pad to have one select which words one wants on each photo in a batch.

If you have a suggestion, I'd be happy to hear it.

-Kirk

[ccclapp]

Hi and thanks

As to #2, I may still not be stating my question clearly.  Ill try again...

If i have hierarchical KWs, may I specify a single Parent and ask PM to populate a field with all the Children KWs of that specific parent and not other KWs?

Thanks

[Kirk Baker]

As to #2, I may still not be stating my question clearly.  Ill try again...

If i have hierarchical KWs, may I specify a single Parent and ask PM to populate a field with all the Children KWs of that specific parent and not other KWs?

Perhaps if you were to illustrate what your keywords field looks like and what you're trying to get out of it and into another field?

-Kirk

[ccclapp]

sure...

Keeping is simple:

Lets say I have a top level parent KW called People and that KW has a single level of children (which in this case are names of people).  Lets say there are 4 children.  Then my master KWs look like this:

People|Tom, People|Dick, People|Harry, People|Jane

Now lets say one image is tagged with 2 KWs under the parent People, eg People|Tom, People|Jane
and a 2nd image is tagged with 3 KWs, eg People|Tom, People|Dick People|Harry

And suppose I want to populate the Persons Shown IPTC field with the child KWs of the parent People, which are tagged to each image.  The result would be

Image #1:  Persons Shown field would be populated with "Tom, Jane"
Image #2:  Persons Shown field would be populated with "Tom, Dick, Harry"

Does the above make sense?

Thanks!!

[Kirk Baker]

Lets say I have a top level parent KW called People and that KW has a single level of children (which in this case are names of people).  Lets say there are 4 children.  Then my master KWs look like this:

People|Tom, People|Dick, People|Harry, People|Jane

Now lets say one image is tagged with 2 KWs under the parent People, eg People|Tom, People|Jane
and a 2nd image is tagged with 3 KWs, eg People|Tom, People|Dick, People|Harry

And suppose I want to populate the Persons Shown IPTC field with the child KWs of the parent People, which are tagged to each image.  The result would be

Image #1:  Persons Shown field would be populated with "Tom, Jane"
Image #2:  Persons Shown field would be populated with "Tom, Dick, Harry"

On image #1 if you used the {keywords} variable the result would be "People|Tom, People|Jane", and if you used that variable in the Persons Shown field, you'd get that complete string.  There is no automated way to subtract out the "People|" part when applying the variable.

-Kirk