How to open a catalog

[syncrasy]

Mark,

Stephen's suggestion for adding a show-all toggle is a simple and smart modification to the current UI and it helps address one of PM+'s most serious usability shortcomings: poor visual communication of a catalog's existence. Note that I say "helps" address. The only way to fully address the shortcoming is to place catalog on/off selection in the main UI (instead of buried in a dialogue).

What dialog is it to be buried in?

Kirk, I wasn't suggesting burying anything. Do you mean what dialog did I think it is buried in? Whatever you meant, I must apologize. I haven't looked at PM+ in several months and was relying on memory of an earlier version of PM+ in which the catalog list was buried in the Catalog > Manage Catalogs dialog. I see now that you have created an Active Catalogs pane on one of main UI tabs. Big improvement. I'll stop chiming in until I've had a chance to acquaint myself with the latest version.

[Hydester]

What would that do when checked?  Always show all images in that catalog?  What if you want to do a search or a filter, or browse?  Does that checkbox have any effect on those tasks?  Would the checkbox become unchecked when you do a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree?  Perhaps better than a state would be an "All" button that when clicked would create a search tab that would show all images?  That tab could persist over restarts of the app if you don't close it.

-Kirk

Hi Kirk

Thanks, as ever, for your outstanding work-ethic, even working over the w/e

As I see it (I am developing my thoughts as we are going on), except for specific exceptions you may wish to build in, one catalog should only ever create one tab. We don't want an accidental proliferation of tabs.

Then cycling through my modifier (using my green box concepts, just for convenience):

1.) Show all (Green) Would show the chosen catalog in a tab with all images

2.) Show latest search (Half green) would modify that same tab to show only the images in the most recent search. At this stage, a prominent button could invite the user to create a new search, either in same tab, overwriting existing search, or if a box is checked, in a new tab. The half-green button should only ever show the latest search in the same tab, not multiple searches within a catalog (which could be invoked by different means, in stand-alone tabs using new or saved searches etc). One final thought, if no search had ever been made on a catalog, the half green should display all images, accompanied by a message inviting filtering.

3.) Show none (white line?) would close the catalog's tab, which may seem a bit extreme, but wouldn't be a problem as it is so easy to reinstate by cycling through 1.) and 2.) above

* If a catalog's tab is left as 1.) or 2.) when closing PM+, that tab would persist over restarts of the app.

Would the checkbox become unchecked when you do a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree?

-Kirk

I think it is best not to envisage a check-box, but an icon, as clicking on it would cycle through the 3 different states. So yes, the icon would change from green to half green when the user does a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree.

Thinking of multiple catalogs:

If the user selected more than one catalog using 1.) and/or 2.) above, then a new multiple catalog tab would open with the resultant combination of images (optionally, through checkbox, in addition to each catalog's own tab) which dynamically alters according to the parameters set in each catalog (green, or half green, or none)


Final Thoughts

All this, for me, is just to arrive at the ability to see at a glance the images within a catalog. My proposals are, in essence, just aliases to search states and would take away the bafflement of people who create a catalog and then can't see their images without a run-around. I defy anyone to name any other cataloging program which offers an empty plate once a catalog has been created.

Whether my ideas are acted upon, or not, something has to be done to address this massive oversight which threatens to relegate PM+ to a curious side-note in the history of cataloging software.

I hope this is taken in the spirit intended: as advice to a very great friend, made with affection, loyalty and sincerity

Stephen

[Michael Naylor]

I'm a newcomer to PMP and this baffled me for about 5 seconds, following my first import.  So I think an empty results page at launch is just fine.  Nothing returns until after a search.  Just as Google and other databases behave.

[Hydester]

Just as Google and other databases behave.

Except for every other image-cataloging software I can think of ...

In essence, you have already made a search by creating a catalog on a subject.

[chromos]

As Michael Naylor, I'm newcomer to PM+ too and its default "non-displaying images" after launch is perfectly normal to me. And, the argument that everyone else does it exactly the opposite doesn't hold water - if all software behaved exactly the same, there would be no need for more than one.

Once upon a time, there were many search engines on the web, and all displayed some "results" by default, though no one asked anything. Then google came up with a blank page, which was like a revelation, but no one is surprised now.

That being said, I don't care much if a catalog shows me all images or not by default as I'm going to filter them anyway, because there's no way I always want to see them all.

[Kirk Baker]

Stephen,

What would that do when checked?  Always show all images in that catalog?  What if you want to do a search or a filter, or browse?  Does that checkbox have any effect on those tasks?  Would the checkbox become unchecked when you do a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree?  Perhaps better than a state would be an "All" button that when clicked would create a search tab that would show all images?  That tab could persist over restarts of the app if you don't close it.

As I see it (I am developing my thoughts as we are going on), except for specific exceptions you may wish to build in, one catalog should only ever create one tab. We don't want an accidental proliferation of tabs.

This I disagree with completely.  I want to be able to do multiple searches, filters and browse sessions.  And when I don't want multiple searches, I can set the preferences to reuse any or all of those distinct types of tabs.

I have never liked how Lightroom opens up and shows me all of the images in the catalog (especially because it's slow).  It is very rare that I would want to select all and then perform some operation.  I'm going to make a query to get to the images that I want to do work with and the rest of the images had better not be there.  Images that do not pertain to the task at hand are distractions to my workflow.

Then cycling through my modifier (using my green box concepts, just for convenience):

1.) Show all (Green) Would show the chosen catalog in a tab with all images

2.) Show latest search (Half green) would modify that same tab to show only the images in the most recent search. At this stage, a prominent button could invite the user to create a new search, either in same tab, overwriting existing search, or if a box is checked, in a new tab. The half-green button should only ever show the latest search in the same tab, not multiple searches within a catalog (which could be invoked by different means, in stand-alone tabs using new or saved searches etc). One final thought, if no search had ever been made on a catalog, the half green should display all images, accompanied by a message inviting filtering.

3.) Show none (white line?) would close the catalog's tab, which may seem a bit extreme, but wouldn't be a problem as it is so easy to reinstate by cycling through 1.) and 2.) above

* If a catalog's tab is left as 1.) or 2.) when closing PM+, that tab would persist over restarts of the app.

Sounds confusing to me.

Would the checkbox become unchecked when you do a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree?

I think it is best not to envisage a check-box, but an icon, as clicking on it would cycle through the 3 different states. So yes, the icon would change from green to half green when the user does a filter, search or select items in the Browse tree.

Thinking of multiple catalogs:

If the user selected more than one catalog using 1.) and/or 2.) above, then a new multiple catalog tab would open with the resultant combination of images (optionally, through checkbox, in addition to each catalog's own tab) which dynamically alters according to the parameters set in each catalog (green, or half green, or none)

Sounds even more confusing to me.

Final Thoughts

All this, for me, is just to arrive at the ability to see at a glance the images within a catalog.

But what do you get from that?  Do you look at the status bar to see how many images are in the catalog?  Do you scroll through the thumbnails to see them all?

My proposals are, in essence, just aliases to search states and would take away the bafflement of people who create a catalog and then can't see their images without a run-around. I defy anyone to name any other cataloging program which offers an empty plate once a catalog has been created.

I would not be surprised that many users, once they used the search/browse/filter operations and experienced their power, would close that "all" tab and never use it again.

Whether my ideas are acted upon, or not, something has to be done to address this massive oversight which threatens to relegate PM+ to a curious side-note in the history of cataloging software.

I hope this is taken in the spirit intended: as advice to a very great friend, made with affection, loyalty and sincerity

I do appreciate your comments and suggestions.  I just don't think we're likely to make some intricate state machine to manage this particular user expectation.  We'd be happy to add an "All" button in the Active Catalogs list that when clicked would perform a search that shows all of your images.

I'm happy to discuss this further and perhaps come up with a more workable solution for all involved, but we're not there yet.

-Kirk

[Hydester]

I'm happy to discuss this further and perhaps come up with a more workable solution for all involved, but we're not there yet.

Please don't even consider this.  However, I would appreciate having Clear button added to the Search tab.

The well has been poisoned. I’ll be off now. Bon chance, Kirk!

[Kirk Baker]

Stephen,

I'm happy to discuss this further and perhaps come up with a more workable solution for all involved, but we're not there yet.

Please don't even consider this.  However, I would appreciate having Clear button added to the Search tab.

The well has been poisoned. I’ll be off now. Bon chance, Kirk!

Not everyone is going to agree with your opinion or your perspective and that's OK, but it shouldn't trouble you.  I have split Michael's request for a Clear button off to a new topic.

We can continue here.  If everyone gave up when only one dissenting voice was heard, then nothing would ever be achieved.

-Kirk