Loss of Exif Data

[Joesboy]

Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16299 (579a307)

Intel Mac OS 10.10.3

I use GIMP and RPP as well as Capture NX, here;s the sequence

Drap or open a NEF file with CNX and save Jpeg etc, Exif data preserved...OK

Drag NEF from PM to RPP(Version 4.8.0 (1703)) or GIMP(Version 4.8.0 (1703)) and save as either Jpeg or Tiff, Exif data are lost.

Drag from PM to Desktop( different drive so actually doing a Copy to Desktop) and then to GIMP or RPP and save as, Exif data are preserved

Seems something amiss when dragging from PM to another APP, any help?
Thanks
Bob

[Kirk Baker]

Bob,

Photo Mechanic Version 5.0, build 16299 (579a307)

Intel Mac OS 10.10.3

I use GIMP and RPP as well as Capture NX, here;s the sequence

Drap or open a NEF file with CNX and save Jpeg etc, Exif data preserved...OK

Drag NEF from PM to RPP(Version 4.8.0 (1703)) or GIMP(Version 4.8.0 (1703)) and save as either Jpeg or Tiff, Exif data are lost.

Drag from PM to Desktop( different drive so actually doing a Copy to Desktop) and then to GIMP or RPP and save as, Exif data are preserved

Seems something amiss when dragging from PM to another APP, any help?

I'm not sure how PM would have any bearing on what another app does with the data in a file.  PM is going to include any associated files (XMP sidecar, WAV file, etc.) of your NEF in the drag.  Perhaps that is throwing off your other applications.  But it is the right thing to do.  If PM only included the image itself then something like the Finder would copy only the image and ignore the RAW file's associated files.

-Kirk

[Joesboy]

Thanks for that response - what really confuses me though is dragging to the Desktop first and them dragging to the App is OK, that does strongly imply that everything is going along from PM to the desktop. Is there any difference between dragging directly from PM to an App and dragging from the desktop to an App and/or dragging from PM to the Desktop? BTW, the App developer is stumped too and has the diagnostic file to chew on but hasn't gotten back to me on that.
The developer says that if there is a sidecar XMP file, the app will use that to copy tags to the output Tiff/Jpeg files. I don't quite know how to determine if I have XMP sidecars or how to put them there if I don't. Yes I read the manual but I'm a slow learner so any ideas are welcome

[Kirk Baker]

Thanks for that response - what really confuses me though is dragging to the Desktop first and them dragging to the App is OK, that does strongly imply that everything is going along from PM to the desktop. Is there any difference between dragging directly from PM to an App and dragging from the desktop to an App and/or dragging from PM to the Desktop? BTW, the App developer is stumped too and has the diagnostic file to chew on but hasn't gotten back to me on that.

The main difference would be what I said earlier.  Dragging from PM will include the image and its associated files.  Dragging from the Finder only includes the image (unless you're selecting the other associated files like the XMP sidecar file.)

The developer says that if there is a sidecar XMP file, the app will use that to copy tags to the output Tiff/Jpeg files. I don't quite know how to determine if I have XMP sidecars or how to put them there if I don't. Yes I read the manual but I'm a slow learner so any ideas are welcome

If the XMP sidecar does not contain EXIF data (many do not) does that mean that their software will ignore the EXIF data contained in the image itself?  It would be best for it to use the EXIF in the image over any EXIF in a XMP sidecar file.

-Kirk

[Joesboy]

According to iExifer, my files sent to the app have exif data but the file returned has no exif data. Is the a way to tell what is in the XMP file?

[Kirk Baker]

According to iExifer, my files sent to the app have exif data but the file returned has no exif data. Is the a way to tell what is in the XMP file?

XMP sidecar files are XML-formatted text files.  You can open them with any text editor and read them.

-Kirk

[Joesboy]

OK...the trouble starts when I apply the IPTC stationary pad to a photo, what am I doing wrong there? Prior to applying the pad, all is good, after applying the pad the exif data are gone.

ETA - In the Prefs for IPTC/XMP I used the defaults for TIFF based Raw, when I changed to "Add Embeded (mis-spelled? Embedded btw) metadata - XMP and IPTC" all seems to work well and the Always create...... option is not checked. Hope that helps someone

Actually that only worked once!

[Kirk Baker]

OK...the trouble starts when I apply the IPTC stationary pad to a photo, what am I doing wrong there? Prior to applying the pad, all is good, after applying the pad the exif data are gone.

ETA - In the Prefs for IPTC/XMP I used the defaults for TIFF based Raw, when I changed to "Add Embeded (mis-spelled? Embedded btw) metadata - XMP and IPTC" all seems to work well and the Always create...... option is not checked. Hope that helps someone

Actually that only worked once!

I'd really like to see one of these images that has lost its EXIF data.  I do not suggest embedding metadata in your RAW files.  If the other software you use does not function with the TIFF table being moved (that's what our embedding does to RAW files) then it isn't going to see any of the metadata correctly.

Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your sample(s).

Thanks,

-Kirk

[Joesboy]

This may be a duplicate, sorry I can't tell if the files uploaded.



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kirk Baker]

This may be a duplicate, sorry I can't tell if the files uploaded.

To be clear, you started with a JPEG that had EXIF data in it, applied the IPTC Stationery Pad, and now the same JPEG is missing its EXIF data?  This JPEG you posted is the image that had rich EXIF data and now has very minimal EXIF data?  (I checked your sample image and it has very little EXIF data in it.)

-Kirk

[Joesboy]

Stranger alert! I think the issue is with the OS. When I drag a file stored on a peripheral drive to the app and save it, the exif gets lost (sometimes). When I drag it to the desktop and then to the app, all seems well all the time(so far). I need to get a consistent behavior before I can or you can proceed. So its time to go deep into the storage units, thanks for the responses, sorry I opened this box.

ETA - Resolution, the other apps don't pickup up sidecar files, but do pick up embedded data. You recommend against embedding in metadata in RAW files, will you explain please because that appears to be what I have to do to use these apps.
Thanks

[Kirk Baker]

Stranger alert! I think the issue is with the OS. When I drag a file stored on a peripheral drive to the app and save it, the exif gets lost (sometimes). When I drag it to the desktop and then to the app, all seems well all the time(so far). I need to get a consistent behavior before I can or you can proceed. So its time to go deep into the storage units, thanks for the responses, sorry I opened this box.

ETA - Resolution, the other apps don't pickup up sidecar files, but do pick up embedded data. You recommend against embedding in metadata in RAW files, will you explain please because that appears to be what I have to do to use these apps.
Thanks

EXIF data is always embedded in images.  Embedding XMP in RAW files is safe, but if you're using apps that don't know how to parse TIFF tables offsets properly (most RAW file formats are actually TIFF files in their layout) won't see the embedded XMP metadata anyway.

-Kirk