Author Topic: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)  (Read 8368 times)

Offline Linwood

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Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« on: February 02, 2016, 07:34:59 PM »
I am doing a trial and generally getting used to some of the short cut keys.

What has me confused is the mouse, both clicks (in preview) and scrolling with the wheel (in contact sheet).

In Preview, I am continually clicking the mouse (I think only double click) and closing the preview.  I'm not even sure if there are settings possible there; I'd really like to be able to click to zoom, but my real question is -- what are the available click-related options there?   (Not talking about the tool bar which is obvious).

In the contact sheet I'm even more frustrated, as scrolling with the mouse wheel is clearly defined as scrolling the sheet -- but only sometimes.  If I scroll slow it seems to do nothing.  If I scroll fast, it scrolls.  How fast seems to vary by the weather, wind direction and time of day. 

What's it supposed to do?   

And back to preview, the manual online indicates there's a control over the wheel in preview to control whether the wheel zooms or goes to the next photo.  It's shown on the Preferences/Preview page.   I don't have anything like that, and can't find it. There's also an acceleration, which may relate to the contact issue (but I can't find that either).  My mouse wheel only advances the photo -- fast, and never goes back -- both directions go forward only.  That makes no sense!

Am I missing some preference settings somewhere?   Some way to control this?   I realize I can train myself to let go of the mouse more and use keyboard preferences, but I LIKE the mouse!

Is there a manual page I'm not reading correctly?   Options I can set/change?

Windows 10 x 64 on a real desktop (not mobile) and PM 5 build 16960.






Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 08:16:57 PM »
I am doing a trial and generally getting used to some of the short cut keys.

What has me confused is the mouse, both clicks (in preview) and scrolling with the wheel (in contact sheet).

In Preview, I am continually clicking the mouse (I think only double click) and closing the preview.  I'm not even sure if there are settings possible there; I'd really like to be able to click to zoom, but my real question is -- what are the available click-related options there?   (Not talking about the tool bar which is obvious).

Ctrl-click on an area of interest will zoom in at the level set in the Zoom slider.  Ctrl-click again pops out to scale-to-fit mode.  Right-click brings up a contextual menu.  Double-left-click exits the preview.

In the contact sheet I'm even more frustrated, as scrolling with the mouse wheel is clearly defined as scrolling the sheet -- but only sometimes.  If I scroll slow it seems to do nothing.  If I scroll fast, it scrolls.

What kind of mouse do you have?  Does it have very low mouse wheel scaling?

And back to preview, the manual online indicates there's a control over the wheel in preview to control whether the wheel zooms or goes to the next photo.  It's shown on the Preferences/Preview page.   I don't have anything like that, and can't find it. There's also an acceleration, which may relate to the contact issue (but I can't find that either).  My mouse wheel only advances the photo -- fast, and never goes back -- both directions go forward only.  That makes no sense!

Am I missing some preference settings somewhere?   Some way to control this?   I realize I can train myself to let go of the mouse more and use keyboard preferences, but I LIKE the mouse!

Preferences do differ between the Mac OS X and Windows versions.  The Windows versions do not offer the Mouse wheel sensitivity sliders.  Also the option to control what the mouse wheel does while zoom is active is not present on the Windows version.

When I have my mouse pointer over the selected preview (large pane) and use my mouse wheel, rolling up shows the previous photo, while rolling down shows the next photo.  Each tactile bump in the scroll wheel moves only one photo at a time.  If I roll quickly and feel several bumps in the rotation, several photos go by.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

-Kirk

Offline Linwood

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 08:29:32 PM »
I am doing a trial and generally getting used to some of the short cut keys.

What has me confused is the mouse, both clicks (in preview) and scrolling with the wheel (in contact sheet).

In Preview, I am continually clicking the mouse (I think only double click) and closing the preview.  I'm not even sure if there are settings possible there; I'd really like to be able to click to zoom, but my real question is -- what are the available click-related options there?   (Not talking about the tool bar which is obvious).

Ctrl-click on an area of interest will zoom in at the level set in the Zoom slider.  Ctrl-click again pops out to scale-to-fit mode.  Right-click brings up a contextual menu.  Double-left-click exits the preview.


OK, I think I see what I'm doing wrong.  I'm always in a hurry, and if I click control-Click again it exits.  The problem is it's interpreting a subsequent quick click as a double click.

Does it use the windows timing for that?   Maybe I can adjust there.

Can I assume it's not possible to redefine any of these as a preference, etc?   I'd really like the double click just do nothing, treat as single, but I can cope I guess.


In the contact sheet I'm even more frustrated, as scrolling with the mouse wheel is clearly defined as scrolling the sheet -- but only sometimes.  If I scroll slow it seems to do nothing.  If I scroll fast, it scrolls.

What kind of mouse do you have?  Does it have very low mouse wheel scaling?


It's an old Microsoft 3000 mouse.  I've used it for years.  It scrolls perfectly on everything else.  To my knowledge it's all set on defaults.  I went into the settings (in the Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center) and looked, and it's set for (under wheel):

Vertical scrolling - on, and near slow (I'd say 15% of the bar showing).

Accelerated vertical scrolling - on and about 1/3rd of the way out from slow.

Horizontal scrolling - on, and about 20% of the way from slow.


And back to preview, the manual online indicates there's a control over the wheel in preview to control whether the wheel zooms or goes to the next photo.  It's shown on the Preferences/Preview page.   I don't have anything like that, and can't find it. There's also an acceleration, which may relate to the contact issue (but I can't find that either).  My mouse wheel only advances the photo -- fast, and never goes back -- both directions go forward only.  That makes no sense!

Am I missing some preference settings somewhere?   Some way to control this?   I realize I can train myself to let go of the mouse more and use keyboard preferences, but I LIKE the mouse!

Preferences do differ between the Mac OS X and Windows versions.  The Windows versions do not offer the Mouse wheel sensitivity sliders.  Also the option to control what the mouse wheel does while zoom is active is not present on the Windows version.

When I have my mouse pointer over the selected preview (large pane) and use my mouse wheel, rolling up shows the previous photo, while rolling down shows the next photo.  Each tactile bump in the scroll wheel moves only one photo at a time.  If I roll quickly and feel several bumps in the rotation, several photos go by.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

-Kirk


That's just not happening for me.  I can scroll very slowly -- there is a barely perceptible bump, and it does move one photo.  But up and down both advance, never go back.

Yet I'm staring at this window and when I scroll it moves perfectly up and down.  And not super-sensitive as it appears in preview.  It's strange -- in preview the mouse wheel appears too sensitive, too fast (and doesn't reverse at all); but in the contact sheet I have to scroll very fast to make it move at all.

I gather no one else is seeing this type of stuff?   

Any other windows 10 users with a Microsoft Mouse?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 08:32:07 PM by Linwood »

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 09:41:32 AM »
Can I assume it's not possible to redefine any of these as a preference, etc?   I'd really like the double click just do nothing, treat as single, but I can cope I guess.

The double-click operation is not configurable to do nothing.

In the contact sheet I'm even more frustrated, as scrolling with the mouse wheel is clearly defined as scrolling the sheet -- but only sometimes.  If I scroll slow it seems to do nothing.  If I scroll fast, it scrolls.

What kind of mouse do you have?  Does it have very low mouse wheel scaling?


It's an old Microsoft 3000 mouse.  I've used it for years.  It scrolls perfectly on everything else.  To my knowledge it's all set on defaults.  I went into the settings (in the Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center) and looked, and it's set for (under wheel):

Vertical scrolling - on, and near slow (I'd say 15% of the bar showing).

Accelerated vertical scrolling - on and about 1/3rd of the way out from slow.

Horizontal scrolling - on, and about 20% of the way from slow.


And back to preview, the manual online indicates there's a control over the wheel in preview to control whether the wheel zooms or goes to the next photo.  It's shown on the Preferences/Preview page.   I don't have anything like that, and can't find it. There's also an acceleration, which may relate to the contact issue (but I can't find that either).  My mouse wheel only advances the photo -- fast, and never goes back -- both directions go forward only.  That makes no sense!

Am I missing some preference settings somewhere?   Some way to control this?   I realize I can train myself to let go of the mouse more and use keyboard preferences, but I LIKE the mouse!

Preferences do differ between the Mac OS X and Windows versions.  The Windows versions do not offer the Mouse wheel sensitivity sliders.  Also the option to control what the mouse wheel does while zoom is active is not present on the Windows version.

When I have my mouse pointer over the selected preview (large pane) and use my mouse wheel, rolling up shows the previous photo, while rolling down shows the next photo.  Each tactile bump in the scroll wheel moves only one photo at a time.  If I roll quickly and feel several bumps in the rotation, several photos go by.

That's just not happening for me.  I can scroll very slowly -- there is a barely perceptible bump, and it does move one photo.  But up and down both advance, never go back.

Yet I'm staring at this window and when I scroll it moves perfectly up and down.  And not super-sensitive as it appears in preview.  It's strange -- in preview the mouse wheel appears too sensitive, too fast (and doesn't reverse at all); but in the contact sheet I have to scroll very fast to make it move at all.

I gather no one else is seeing this type of stuff?   

We have no other reports of odd mouse wheel behavior on any of the Windows OSes that we support.  For PM to always scroll in one direction it would have to be receiving mouse wheel events always with the same signed delta (either both directions are sending positive or both directions are sending negative values).

-Kirk

Offline Linwood

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 09:49:21 AM »
Quote
The double-click operation is not configurable to do nothing.

I think I've got it much more workable by changing the timing in windows so that it requires a pretty fast second click to be "double".  So I won't get that as frequently.

Quote
We have no other reports of odd mouse wheel behavior on any of the Windows OSes that we support.  For PM to always scroll in one direction it would have to be receiving mouse wheel events always with the same signed delta (either both directions are sending positive or both directions are sending negative values).

Somewhere around here I have another mouse, will break it out and give it a try.

But I just tried again with the same one, to make sure I was not seeing things.  It is not intermittent, it definitely moves forward in the photos (selected photo showing in the preview, showing on the filmstrip in the preview, and showing on the contact sheet).

I don't see how my mouse could be sending incorrect signals when every other program I use (and I spend hours a day in front of the screen) works fine with it.  I get what you are saying, but something is different in PM vs other programs, notably the lack of any scroll in slow movements on the contact sheet.

More when I get another mouse to try.

Offline Linwood

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 09:58:49 AM »

Quote
We have no other reports of odd mouse wheel behavior on any of the Windows OSes that we support.  For PM to always scroll in one direction it would have to be receiving mouse wheel events always with the same signed delta (either both directions are sending positive or both directions are sending negative values).

Somewhere around here I have another mouse, will break it out and give it a try.

But I just tried again with the same one, to make sure I was not seeing things.  It is not intermittent, it definitely moves forward in the photos (selected photo showing in the preview, showing on the filmstrip in the preview, and showing on the contact sheet).

I don't see how my mouse could be sending incorrect signals when every other program I use (and I spend hours a day in front of the screen) works fine with it.  I get what you are saying, but something is different in PM vs other programs, notably the lack of any scroll in slow movements on the contact sheet.

More when I get another mouse to try.

[/quote]

Well, that's just weird.  I had a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse V2 sitting around (junky thing I really don't want to use, too small and light).

But it works perfectly, both the contact sheet and the preview scroll properly.

That's weird because I have no problem in other programs.  But it does seem specific to that (model?  specific one?) mouse.

So... I guess never mind. 

Offline Linwood

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Re: Mouse clicks and scroll (wheel)
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2016, 09:33:19 AM »
So this just gets weirder and weirder.  Now that I've gotten a much shorter double click that does not bother me significantly in use, but the mouse scrolling behavior is just weird, and I offer it in case it rings a bell for anyone.  Here's what I've done.

As mentioned above, I tried one of the world's simplest mice, a Microsoft that I don't use because I don't like the feel.  It worked fine.

And as my mouse was very old and a bit sticky, I bought a new mouse, a wireless Microsoft Wireless Mobile 4000.  Brand new.  Hooked it up and.... it's scrolling the film strip on the preview backwards.

Except... after a lot of experimentation, here's what I see.

First, to reiterate -- I've tried this now on a ton of other programs from browsers of the web to browsers of photos, lightroom and photoshop, etc.   It works exactly as expected on every other program.

In Photo Mechanic, on the Contact Sheet, it works directionally correct, but requires a certain threshold of speed to move at all.  If I scroll bump by bump it does nothing.

In the film strip if HOVERING OVER the film strip, it works directionally correct as well, and just like the contact sheet, it requires a certain speed before it does anything at all.  But when it works, it is in the right direction.

If, however, you are over the preview image itself, it does NOT require any specific speed, it scrolls as slowly as you want to turn the wheel.    And if you turn it slowly, it goes forward even when you scroll the wheel backwards.  As you scroll faster and faster backward, it starts to mix in a few backward (correct) with all the forward movement -- kind of a stutter.   It's like the same threshold for any movement while hovering over the filmstrip or contact sheet is also a threshold for going in the right direction (but still mixed in with lots of wrong direction).   

Hovering over the large image in the preview is where I initially tested it, and that's why I saw it going backwards all the time, as I was going slowly to make sure I could tell direction by the actual images.  It is very speed sensitive to getting the direction right.

It seems clear Photo Mechanic is doing something a bit differently in accessing the mouse information from your typical program.  Whether this is uncovering some subtle problem in my setup, or some limitation of Microsoft's implementation of their more advanced interfaces I do not know (the non-working mice have more buttons and are controlled by the Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse software, the other that worked is just a HID compliant mouse), or they are not implementing some aspect correctly that only shows up in certain cases... ?

I'm generally using auto-advance or the arrows to navigate anyway, so this is a non-issue for me, especially now that I see it is related to where I hover as well.

But it is just weird.  If someone with a similar setup (4+ button microsoft mouse on Windows 10 x 64 with their mouse software) is curious, give it a try.  Or if someone sees it scrolling backwards, maybe they will find this note.