Photo Mechanic and Capture One 12 Workflow

[Curriei]

I am a freelance photographer mainly working in the Australian News Media Industry and I am seriously considering moving to Capture One 12 from Adobe.I like the option of owning the licence outright compared with Adobe's on going monthly subscription.I understand there will be a learning curve with Capture One but I am after any feedback from anyone who has made the move and uses Photo Mechanic with their workflow in conjunction with Capture One.
Many Thanks.

[mklass]

I just started trialing Capture One. It is a daunting change.

I don't plan to use it for cataloging, only as an editor.

I have not been able to get C1 to launch with the file I want to edit using PM's Edit with function.

That said, even in "Session"mode, it will create 4 files for every image in the directory of the file you are editing, even if you only open 1 image.  One is a settings file (cos), another is a thumbnail (cot), then there are 2 proxy files for each image (coffee and cop). The average of this 4 is about 1.5MB per image. There is no way to prevent C1 from creating these, and it does not delete them when you close. You need to delete them manually. Fortunately they are all in a sub-folder of the folder containing the images.

Other issues I have found in 1 short time of trialing:

The image I am working was taken with a Nikon camera and Sigma lens. The C1 lens profiles that I am looking at for this particular image show the lens profile for a Canon, and other Sigma lenses for Nikon. There is no Nikon/Sigma combination for the camera and lens that I used.

I have set up several plug-ins to be able to Edit with from C1. It appears this only works if the plug-in is already running, otherwise C1 just creates a copy of the file in whatever format that was specified with an incremental number added to the file name. It does this anyway, if the plug-in is open, as that is where the edits are saved. So C1 just creates a new file based on the edits you have done thus far. The plug-in changes are not incorporated back into C1.

Variants are just additional copies of the file, not C1 internal editing instructions. So again, there is nothing non-destructive about the variants.

DNG files saved with C1 have no embedded preview, or at least not one that can be read by Photo Mechanic.

Again, I just started the C1 trial, and perhaps there are solutions to the above problems. I'm not sure C1 is worth the high price. There seems to be better functionality in some of the less expensive editors. (Luminar, PhotoLab). I was thinking of trying Affinity Photo, but their trial period is only 10 days, and when I have had a Serif product in the past, I got pestered with sales calls to buy their other products or upgrade.

[Hayo Baan]

Thank you Mick, for sharing your findings! I'm quite happy using Photoshop/Camera Raw and Lightroom (occasionally), but I'm always on the lookout for better solutions.

Please update if you find new issues or solutions to your already described issues. Some of these I could perhaps live with, but e.g. the missing preview is a deal breaker to me. Can you also comment on the quality and other workflow aspects (speed, ease of use, etc.).

Thanks!

[Soizic]

I work with PM and C1 since many years.

C1 catalog is not pleasant, so I hoped and use PM+.

No more Adobe, I use sometimes Affinity Photo.

All is OK now.

 

[Odd Skjaeveland]

Variants are just additional copies of the file, not C1 internal editing instructions. So again, there is nothing non-destructive about the variants.

I'm confused. I have used C1 regularly since its version 7 without seeing what you describe. C1 in session mode and C1 in catalog mode has always had the variants as non destructive internal edit instructions, I have yet to see C1 create additional copies of "the file" which I take to mean "additional copies of the original image file", not just additional (internal) cache files.

What does indeed confuse a few C1 users is that the first image rendered from an image file is also the first image variant in C1 lingo. C1 shows variants only, there is no concept of an "original" plus "additional variants" as some users tend to think when they start using C1, images shown are variants. The first variant is only one out of the huge number of possible first renderings depending on how you configured C1, on your presets and on added adjustments (if any). The only way to zero variants is to remove the image from C1

The PM-C1 combo works for me even though both applications have their quirks. My main advice for PM-C1 or PM-<anything> is to do all metadata work in PM (not a loss, PM is likely the better metadata tool anyway).

[imagetic]

I spent a few hours in Google and really came up short in comparison to PM/LR workflow information and tips/tricks. I was about to start a separate discussion about PM/C1 workflow when I stumbled across this one.

Last month I decided I'd give C1 a serious try, but today I decided I'd start tackling full shoots with it.  LR is fine, catalogs get a bit bogged down when they're huge and I love to print from LR, but I use C1 for tethering in the studio a lot and I like the methodical way the photo editing side is split up, remind me of working with nodes and grades in Davinci Resolve. Layers are cool but I haven't ever really had a problem with the brush system in LR. Anyways, I could talk about that for a whole chapter of a book, so I wont.

Getting PM6 to sync color classes and star ratings to C1 was a breeze, that much I expected.  But I read somewhere that C1 is fairly taxing when you tell it to write all data changes to the XMP all the time. I have a tendency to bounce back and forth between PM and my RAW editor and often make rating/class and metadata changes. Is that just a horrible practice and I should stop doing it? Right now, I tell C1 to Auto Sync Sidecar XMP: Load. At least then it's pulling any changes from PM over automatically.

Here is what I currently have it set to?



If I have those settings, it looks like I need to tell C1 to write the metadata any time I decide to go back to PM. Not ideal, but if C1 is extra taxing for some reason when it has to write to XMP every touch, that's probably not ideal? I haven't tested it under a full load.

I was a bit bummed to see that cropping information from PM couldn't translate over to C1, that can save a lot of time in the field. I sent C1 a request, but honestly, their support hasn't been anywhere near as responsive as I'd like. Is there anything else that doesn't translate over?

Right now my workflow looks something like:
1. Ingest / rename using PM
2. Set selects using color class, rate selects using stars
3. Drag selects over to C1 / Import to C1.

I read about how finicky keywords in PM and C1 can be. I usually import with basic information and then add detailed information once I have made selects. So I haven't run into anything major but I don't generally do a ton of metadata after PM.

That's it right now.  If anyone has tips/tricks/links to resources and information to share, that would be awesome. As I dial my workflow in more I'll post back any findings I have.

[mbrakes]

Right now my workflow looks something like:
1. Ingest / rename using PM
2. Set selects using color class, rate selects using stars
3. Drag selects over to C1 / Import to C1.

What imagetic said above. I find PM to be way better for captioning and keywording, maybe out of old habit, but I prefer it. Jumping back and forth between C1 and PM6 can be painful and mess up star ratings etc. unless you really know what you are doing, so I try to avoid it by having a one-way workflow, PM first - then C1.

I still use Photoshop CS6 (no subscription and still works) when I have to edit individual pixels, but I have found the new layers features in C1 to be incredibly powerful, to the point of just having to use PS for compositing and advanced retouching.

And C1 is the only RAW developer to my knowledge to have a curves tool which works in LAB mode, which is incredibly useful. That, and the skin colour editor, are the stand-out features for me. And rock-solid tethering on commercial shoots.

C1 really flies now on a powerful Hackintosh to the extent that I can cull almost as fast in C1 as in PM6. I could almost do without PM6 if it wasnt for the fact that I find the captioning and keywording to be so much better in PM6. Also really love PM for its uploader tool to Photoshelter, which I use for client delivery and backup. And I am really looking forward to PM Plus and the cataloguing feature, as I really miss a good image cataloguing tool. Lightroom is dog slow and I suffer from subscription fatigue big time, so as long as there is an alternative that isn't subscription-based, then I really prefer that.

[db7178]

I wonder if the FAILURE to have crop data transfer to capture one has still not been resolved.

I spent a few hours in Google and really came up short in comparison to PM/LR workflow information and tips/tricks. I was about to start a separate discussion about PM/C1 workflow when I stumbled across this one.

Last month I decided I'd give C1 a serious try, but today I decided I'd start tackling full shoots with it.  LR is fine, catalogs get a bit bogged down when they're huge and I love to print from LR, but I use C1 for tethering in the studio a lot and I like the methodical way the photo editing side is split up, remind me of working with nodes and grades in Davinci Resolve. Layers are cool but I haven't ever really had a problem with the brush system in LR. Anyways, I could talk about that for a whole chapter of a book, so I wont.

Getting PM6 to sync color classes and star ratings to C1 was a breeze, that much I expected.  But I read somewhere that C1 is fairly taxing when you tell it to write all data changes to the XMP all the time. I have a tendency to bounce back and forth between PM and my RAW editor and often make rating/class and metadata changes. Is that just a horrible practice and I should stop doing it? Right now, I tell C1 to Auto Sync Sidecar XMP: Load. At least then it's pulling any changes from PM over automatically.

Here is what I currently have it set to?



If I have those settings, it looks like I need to tell C1 to write the metadata any time I decide to go back to PM. Not ideal, but if C1 is extra taxing for some reason when it has to write to XMP every touch, that's probably not ideal? I haven't tested it under a full load.

I was a bit bummed to see that cropping information from PM couldn't translate over to C1, that can save a lot of time in the field. I sent C1 a request, but honestly, their support hasn't been anywhere near as responsive as I'd like. Is there anything else that doesn't translate over?

Right now my workflow looks something like:
1. Ingest / rename using PM
2. Set selects using color class, rate selects using stars
3. Drag selects over to C1 / Import to C1.

I read about how finicky keywords in PM and C1 can be. I usually import with basic information and then add detailed information once I have made selects. So I haven't run into anything major but I don't generally do a ton of metadata after PM.

That's it right now.  If anyone has tips/tricks/links to resources and information to share, that would be awesome. As I dial my workflow in more I'll post back any findings I have.

[Kirk Baker]

I wonder if the FAILURE to have crop data transfer to capture one has still not been resolved.

It would be up to the developers of Capture One to use the crops that we write to the XMP metadata.  The crop metadata is in a format that both Photo Mechanic and Adobe products can use.

-Kirk

[db7178]

Hasn't someone from the PM side reached out to Capture One to ask them to get on it, since there is an obvious source of frustration for users of both products that's been aggravating for YEARS now?

[Kirk Baker]

Hasn't someone from the PM side reached out to Capture One to ask them to get on it, since there is an obvious source of frustration for users of both products that's been aggravating for YEARS now?

The crops that we produce are compatible with Adobe's crops.  If the C1 developers wanted to be compatible with Adobe crops, I expect that they would have done so by now.

If thousands of C1 users demanded cropping compatibility with Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and the Adobe Camera RAW plugin for Photoshop, they might change their minds and do so.

Apparently they've responded to previous queries about cropping support, which you yourself have replied after this post:

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=11375.msg55570#msg55570

-Kirk

[db7178]

Yes, indeed. Welp, since Capture One didn't bother to listen, and since the software is buggy as hell, and has been for years, I'm switching back to Lightroom. I'm pleasantly surprised to find it runs faster these days on the same machine it used to bog down insufferably. And surprise: My Photo Mechanic crops work just as they always used to. (And how they refuse to on Capture One.)