“Include In Catalog” errors too easy to make

[bazography]

build 4257 (8daf8ba)
macOS 10.14.6

I use the “Include In Catalog” contextual menu when adding a few images at a time, typically a TIF version to one catalog, and a JPG version to another catalog. I’m usually working in the Navigator tab, so the Active Catalogs selector isn’t visible, which means I’m constantly having to switch back and forth to the Origanizer tab. It’s way too easy to forget to check or to get mixed up about which catalog is selected, and end up modifying the wrong catalog. If I don’t catch my mistake right away it becomes very difficult to fix days or weeks later because I may not remember exactly which photos I added, and there is no way of visually identifying which catalog a thumbnail belongs to.

Not sure if anyone else has tried this... but I was curious if I had already messed up my catalogs without even knowing. To find out I took note of the image count in each of my catalogs, then deleted them and started from scratch. I’ve done this multiple times and the new catalogs have had different image counts than the old ones every time, which means at some point I've messed up every catalog so far. I realize that I'm the one messing it up, but I really think the current UI makes it way too easy to do.

There are 2 things that would help a great deal:

1. After selecting “Include In Catalog”, a pop-up (something like the screenshot) to select/confirm a catalog before continuing could prevent lots of headaches. If it turns out the correct catalog was already selected, just hit Continue. If you switch between catalogs frequently, not only would this be safer but it would be much faster too because the catalog selector would come up automatically instead of having to navigate to it every time. If you only have one catalog then it adds one extra click, but maybe this is a feature that could be shut off in preferences.

2. It would also be a huge help if there was some indication of which catalog a thumbnail belongs to. At the moment there is a green dot to indicate if a thumbnail is cataloged. Maybe we could assign that dot a different colour for each catalog, making it easy to spot at a glance.

[Kirk Baker]

I use the “Include In Catalog” contextual menu when adding a few images at a time, typically a TIF version to one catalog, and a JPG version to another catalog.

Can I ask what you're trying to accomplish by doing this?  It sounds laborious and error prone.  Perhaps we can add some filter that would make it easier to have a query dynamically show you the file formats you want to see and not show the ones you don't want to see?  If you're just wanting to know which images are masters and which ones aren't, why not make that part of the metadata?  You could use a field like Edit Status and put "master" in the masters, and "derived" for the images produced by modifications to the masters.  Then the browse or filter system could show you all masters or all derived images with a single click.  And all of the images would be in one catalog with no switching between catalogs and the associated management issues.

I’m usually working in the Navigator tab, so the Active Catalogs selector isn’t visible, which means I’m constantly having to switch back and forth to the Origanizer tab. It’s way too easy to forget to check or to get mixed up about which catalog is selected, and end up modifying the wrong catalog. If I don’t catch my mistake right away it becomes very difficult to fix days or weeks later because I may not remember exactly which photos I added, and there is no way of visually identifying which catalog a thumbnail belongs to.

Not sure if anyone else has tried this... but I was curious if I had already messed up my catalogs without even knowing. To find out I took note of the image count in each of my catalogs, then deleted them and started from scratch. I’ve done this multiple times and the new catalogs have had different image counts than the old ones every time, which means at some point I've messed up every catalog so far. I realize that I'm the one messing it up, but I really think the current UI makes it way too easy to do.

There are 2 things that would help a great deal:

1. After selecting “Include In Catalog”, a pop-up (something like the screenshot) to select/confirm a catalog before continuing could prevent lots of headaches. If it turns out the correct catalog was already selected, just hit Continue. If you switch between catalogs frequently, not only would this be safer but it would be much faster too because the catalog selector would come up automatically instead of having to navigate to it every time. If you only have one catalog then it adds one extra click, but maybe this is a feature that could be shut off in preferences.

You can leave the Catalog Management window open and size it to show just the list of catalogs then you could refer to it at a glance and change selections as needed.

2. It would also be a huge help if there was some indication of which catalog a thumbnail belongs to. At the moment there is a green dot to indicate if a thumbnail is cataloged. Maybe we could assign that dot a different colour for each catalog, making it easy to spot at a glance. 

I agree that it would be useful to know what catalog(s) an image belongs to, but it would likely be some sort of button to click that then performs a query and shows the results in a panel.  As for different colored dots, that could also be done, but there will be those that have color blindness issues that will not benefit from the feature.

-Kirk

[bazography]

I use the “Include In Catalog” contextual menu when adding a few images at a time, typically a TIF version to one catalog, and a JPG version to another catalog.

Can I ask what you're trying to accomplish by doing this?  It sounds laborious and error prone.  Perhaps we can add some filter that would make it easier to have a query dynamically show you the file formats you want to see and not show the ones you don't want to see?  If you're just wanting to know which images are masters and which ones aren't, why not make that part of the metadata?  You could use a field like Edit Status and put "master" in the masters, and "derived" for the images produced by modifications to the masters.  Then the browse or filter system could show you all masters or all derived images with a single click.  And all of the images would be in one catalog with no switching between catalogs and the associated management issues.

On an external drive I typically have a RAW file and a finished TIF. On my local drive I keep a hi-res JPG of the finished file. So I have a catalog for the masters on the external drive, and a catalog for the JPGs on my local drive. When I first started with PM+ I had 1 catalog for everything but quickly realized it was a pain, mostly because a quick search would result in all 3 versions. I ended up reorganizing my archive and started using multiple catalogs and find it so much easier now.

I realize I could use the Filter or Browse to narrow it down to finished files only (I don't see Edit Status on the list by the way). I fail to see how this is a 1-click operation though. First I'd have to use a filter to narrow it down to finished files, then add various other filters to drill down to find the specific images I'm looking for. Or I could filter down to my finished files and then go to the search tab and enter a search with the button selected to limit to the current contact sheet. But that's multiple steps and lots of little triangles to click and way too slow for what should be a simple search. 99% of the time I want to ignore the "masters" completely, and putting them in separate catalog does exactly that, which makes searches way faster and easier. If I want to see my finished Alaska photos, I just type Alaska into the search field... done. All I see is my finished Alaska photos.

It sounds like you didn't anticipate anyone wanting to use catalogs in this way, but to me this seems like a perfectly logical use of the multiple-catalog concept. I'm not finding it labourious though. It's a little more effort initially, but the day to day browsing and searching is so much easier that I'm much happier now having separate catalogs for masters and finished copies and would not want to go back.

I’m usually working in the Navigator tab, so the Active Catalogs selector isn’t visible, which means I’m constantly having to switch back and forth to the Origanizer tab. It’s way too easy to forget to check or to get mixed up about which catalog is selected, and end up modifying the wrong catalog. If I don’t catch my mistake right away it becomes very difficult to fix days or weeks later because I may not remember exactly which photos I added, and there is no way of visually identifying which catalog a thumbnail belongs to.

Not sure if anyone else has tried this... but I was curious if I had already messed up my catalogs without even knowing. To find out I took note of the image count in each of my catalogs, then deleted them and started from scratch. I’ve done this multiple times and the new catalogs have had different image counts than the old ones every time, which means at some point I've messed up every catalog so far. I realize that I'm the one messing it up, but I really think the current UI makes it way too easy to do.

There are 2 things that would help a great deal:

1. After selecting “Include In Catalog”, a pop-up (something like the screenshot) to select/confirm a catalog before continuing could prevent lots of headaches. If it turns out the correct catalog was already selected, just hit Continue. If you switch between catalogs frequently, not only would this be safer but it would be much faster too because the catalog selector would come up automatically instead of having to navigate to it every time. If you only have one catalog then it adds one extra click, but maybe this is a feature that could be shut off in preferences.

You can leave the Catalog Management window open and size it to show just the list of catalogs then you could refer to it at a glance and change selections as needed.

I guess my thought here was that it's kinda like Save As in any software... you always have a pop-up asking for a destination. I'm just suggesting that it would be much safer if "Add To Catalog" did the same thing by asking "which catalog?". For anyone wanting to use catalogs this way it would not only avoid frequent errors, but it would be much faster at the same time. PM has a preference to eliminate the pop-up warning when emptying the trash, so maybe this pop-up could be treated the same way.... if you only use 1 catalog then just shut it off.

2. It would also be a huge help if there was some indication of which catalog a thumbnail belongs to. At the moment there is a green dot to indicate if a thumbnail is cataloged. Maybe we could assign that dot a different colour for each catalog, making it easy to spot at a glance. 

I agree that it would be useful to know what catalog(s) an image belongs to, but it would likely be some sort of button to click that then performs a query and shows the results in a panel.  As for different colored dots, that could also be done, but there will be those that have color blindness issues that will not benefit from the feature.

Good point, I just thought of coloured dots since one is already in use. In any case, something visible in the contact sheet all the time has a big advantage as it gives you the chance to notice any mis-cataloged images even if you're not looking for them.

[BillB]

If you're just wanting to know which images are masters and which ones aren't, why not make that part of the metadata?  You could use a field like Edit Status and put "master" in the masters, and "derived" for the images produced by modifications to the masters.

I would love to be able to make use of some of these IPTC fields in this way, generally speaking. But there are so few IPTC fields exposed for browse or filter. The Edit Status field you reference is not, itself, available. I wish it was. I've not located any way to expand the list of fields available in browse via the interface. Am I missing something?

I agree that it would be useful to know what catalog(s) an image belongs to,

I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I think this should also apply to Collections. You really need to know where all an image resides.

[Dub]

Hi all

If it helps, personally I use color classes to manage versions of my photos (RAW, TIF... I don't keep any JPEG)

 

In French in the screen copy, sorry...

[Dub]

After that, it's extremely easy to select the desired version...

[bazography]

I appreciate the suggestions, but I use colour class for other things.

Besides, using colour class does not solve the problem I was talking about. I want to use separate catalogs for my "masters". I think of them as being the equivalent to negatives and contact sheets. I don't need negatives and contact sheets on a day to day basis. Likely I won't need them ever again actually. So they are stored in a box in the back of a closet. My Masters are just digital negatives and contact sheets, so I want them in a separate catalog so that I can basically ignore them in the back of the closet... so to speak.

The big advantage is quick and easy use of the Search dialog without ending up with 2 or 3 copies of everything in a contact sheet. Yes the Filter tab could be used to narrow down the results, but that is terribly slow and cumbersome to do every time I want to do a simple search.

I've tried various archive methods since PM+ was released, and putting my masters in a separate catalog is hands-down the best method I've found. But the way PM works right now makes multi-catalog use somewhat prone to error.

[KeithRJ]

A simple suggestion:

1. Show the currently active catalog(s) in the title bar
2. Provide the ability to show the catalog under the thumbnails in the Contact Sheet. You can customise information shown in the Preferences.

I do like the idea of being able to select a catalog to add selected images to (as in a Save To... option)