Migrating from Lightroom Classic to PM6+

[Michael Naylor]

I'm running Photo Mechanic Plus Version 6.0, build 5376 on macOS Big Sur version 11.0.1.

All my Lightroom images have hierarchical keywords - often 4 or 5 levels deep.  I'm looking for a way to migrate from LR whilst keeping the hierarchical structure.

In addition, I'm looking for a way to move my WHO and WHERE top level keywords to the IPTC persons and location fields - and to subsequently delete those hierarchical structures.

I'm completely new to PM and would very much like to hear from anyone who can offer some guidance on how to proceed.  I'm also an inexperienced exiftool user if that's what it takes.

[Kirk Baker]

Michael,

I'm running Photo Mechanic Plus Version 6.0, build 5376 on macOS Big Sur version 11.0.1.

All my Lightroom images have hierarchical keywords - often 4 or 5 levels deep.  I'm looking for a way to migrate from LR whilst keeping the hierarchical structure.

If you force Lightroom to write the metadata to your files before you catalog them then Photo Mechanic Plus will see your hierarchical keyword structure and add them to the Keywords portion of the database.  You'll see them in the Browse tab of the Organizer or in the Keywords filter stage of a Filter in the Filter tab of the Organizer.  You can also search keywords with the Quick Search field in the Search tab of the Organizer.

In addition, I'm looking for a way to move my WHO and WHERE top level keywords to the IPTC persons and location fields - and to subsequently delete those hierarchical structures.

I can't think of an automated way to do that, but you can edit the metadata in Photo Mechanic Plus for each image, cutting and pasting from the Keywords field to the appropriate fields.  To do this, click on the 'i' button that appears when you hover your mouse over an image.  You can move through all of the images (you don't have to go in and out of the Metadata (IPTC) Info dialog.

-Kirk

[KeithRJ]

You can use EXIFTool to move metadata between fields. I can help if you let me know exactly what you want done and provide a couple of test images.

[Michael Naylor]

You can use EXIFTool to move metadata between fields. I can help if you let me know exactly what you want done and provide a couple of test images.

This is very kind of you.  I've found a way to move the WHERE locations to IPTC using LR - it's tedious, but a great opportunity to rationalise the mess.  I'll get back you when I get around to moving the WHO keywords.

[KeithRJ]

You can use EXIFTool to move metadata between fields. I can help if you let me know exactly what you want done and provide a couple of test images.

This is very kind of you.  I've found a way to move the WHERE locations to IPTC using LR - it's tedious, but a great opportunity to rationalise the mess.  I'll get back you when I get around to moving the WHO keywords.

No worries 

[Michael Naylor]

You can use EXIFTool to move metadata between fields. I can help if you let me know exactly what you want done and provide a couple of test images.

This is very kind of you.  I've found a way to move the WHERE locations to IPTC using LR - it's tedious, but a great opportunity to rationalise the mess.  I'll get back you when I get around to moving the WHO keywords.

No worries 

Hi KethRJ

If you're still there, I can report I've successfully moved all my LR WHERE keywords to the IPTC location (legacy) tags.  I did this in LR, because I was able to search and add missing GPS coordinates very easily in it's Map module.  Besides, when I began PMP was refusing to import everything and hanging - a problem that has since been resolved by Kirk.

So now, all the LR WHERE keywords have been deleted and I'mm ready to tackle the WHO keywords.

I could use the same laborious method, selecting all images for a person and typing it into LR's tiny IPTC person shown field, but many images are tagged with several people.  Tiny input filed will be a problem, so I'm asking if you have a better way.

My WHO structured keywords are as follows:

#PEOPLE
   Family
      Mickey Mouse
      ..
   Friends
      Donald Duck
      ..

When complete, I'll delete all the LR #PEOPLE keywords as well.

Perhaps I'll be able to employ a similar method to move and delete other LR categories, because my ultimate goal is to import all 25,000 images into PMP - without Adobe's proprietary hierarchical keywords messing things up.

[KeithRJ]

Hi KethRJ

If you're still there, I can report I've successfully moved all my LR WHERE keywords to the IPTC location (legacy) tags.  I did this in LR, because I was able to search and add missing GPS coordinates very easily in it's Map module.  Besides, when I began PMP was refusing to import everything and hanging - a problem that has since been resolved by Kirk.

So now, all the LR WHERE keywords have been deleted and I'mm ready to tackle the WHO keywords.

I could use the same laborious method, selecting all images for a person and typing it into LR's tiny IPTC person shown field, but many images are tagged with several people.  Tiny input filed will be a problem, so I'm asking if you have a better way.

My WHO structured keywords are as follows:

#PEOPLE
   Family
      Mickey Mouse
      ..
   Friends
      Donald Duck
      ..

When complete, I'll delete all the LR #PEOPLE keywords as well.

Perhaps I'll be able to employ a similar method to move and delete other LR categories, because my ultimate goal is to import all 25,000 images into PMP - without Adobe's proprietary hierarchical keywords messing things up.

Hi Michael,

It would help if you could tell me where the existing data is and how it is formatted.  You mention "structured keywords" so my question is: are these in the keywords field or somewhere else?  Also where do you want the WHO data to go?

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Cheers
Keith

[Michael Naylor]

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Hi Keith, and thank you for offering to help. 

Lightroom adds hierarchical keywords to an Adobe proprietary XML tag named <lr: hierarchicalSubject> in addition to the standard IPTC tags.  When PMP imports the metadata it also adds the Adobe tags to the standard IPTC tags - creating an untidy mess. 

I'm wishing to get my people names into to the standard IPTC <persons shown> tag, so I can then delete the Adobe tags and reduce the number of keywords.  This will need to done before importing to PMP.   I aiming to repeat this process with other Adobe tags using a similar method.

I've zipped the photo incase the forum strips any metadata.

[Kirk Baker]

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Lightroom adds hierarchical keywords to an Adobe proprietary XML tag named <lr: hierarchicalSubject> in addition to the standard IPTC tags.

It's not proprietary.  Photo Mechanic and other apps are perfectly able to read and update keywords in the hierachical subject field of the Adobe XMP namespace.  Same goes for crops.

When PMP imports the metadata it also adds the Adobe tags to the standard IPTC tags - creating an untidy mess.

This is a false statement.  Photo Mechanic shows the hierarchical and flat keywords in the same field, they are not duplicated, nor is the metadata made into an untidy mess.  We have our own namespace as well and other apps like ExifTool are capable of reading, creating and updating that data too.

-Kirk

[Michael Naylor]

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Lightroom adds hierarchical keywords to an Adobe proprietary XML tag named <lr: hierarchicalSubject> in addition to the standard IPTC tags.

It's not proprietary.  Photo Mechanic and other apps are perfectly able to read and update keywords in the hierachical subject field of the Adobe XMP namespace.  Same goes for crops.

When PMP imports the metadata it also adds the Adobe tags to the standard IPTC tags - creating an untidy mess.

This is a false statement.  Photo Mechanic shows the hierarchical and flat keywords in the same field, they are not duplicated, nor is the metadata made into an untidy mess.  We have our own namespace as well and other apps like ExifTool are capable of reading, creating and updating that data too.

-Kirk

I didn't think <lr: hierarchicalSubject> is part of the IPTC spec.

I didn't say PM isn't importing them, but take a look at the keywords yourself.  I'm not accusing PM of doing something wrong.  It does the right thing in preserving all that's available.  Your help page on importing from LR explains why the mess occurs.  I'm trying to find a way of preventing this mess by cleaning up my files before finally committing them to PM.

[Kirk Baker]

Michael,

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Lightroom adds hierarchical keywords to an Adobe proprietary XML tag named <lr: hierarchicalSubject> in addition to the standard IPTC tags.

It's not proprietary.  Photo Mechanic and other apps are perfectly able to read and update keywords in the hierachical subject field of the Adobe XMP namespace.  Same goes for crops.

When PMP imports the metadata it also adds the Adobe tags to the standard IPTC tags - creating an untidy mess.

This is a false statement.  Photo Mechanic shows the hierarchical and flat keywords in the same field, they are not duplicated, nor is the metadata made into an untidy mess.  We have our own namespace as well and other apps like ExifTool are capable of reading, creating and updating that data too.

I didn't think <lr: hierarchicalSubject> is part of the IPTC spec.

I don't believe it is, no, but it's now an industry standard.

I didn't say PM isn't importing them, but take a look at the keywords yourself.  I'm not accusing PM of doing something wrong.  It does the right thing in preserving all that's available.  Your help page on importing from LR explains why the mess occurs.  I'm trying to find a way of preventing this mess by cleaning up my files before finally committing them to PM.

Please take a look a this thread: http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13877.0

I'm well aware of the concerns.  Take a look at the Keywords section of the Browse tree (or use the Keywords filter) and you'll see that your flat and hierarchical keywords are well represented and clearly delineated.  I wouldn't advise removing information that may be of use to you when you need to find photos.

-Kirk

[Michael Naylor]

Michael,

If you could provide a sample image with the above info then I can provide you with the exiftool command to do what you want.

Lightroom adds hierarchical keywords to an Adobe proprietary XML tag named <lr: hierarchicalSubject> in addition to the standard IPTC tags.

It's not proprietary.  Photo Mechanic and other apps are perfectly able to read and update keywords in the hierachical subject field of the Adobe XMP namespace.  Same goes for crops.

When PMP imports the metadata it also adds the Adobe tags to the standard IPTC tags - creating an untidy mess.

This is a false statement.  Photo Mechanic shows the hierarchical and flat keywords in the same field, they are not duplicated, nor is the metadata made into an untidy mess.  We have our own namespace as well and other apps like ExifTool are capable of reading, creating and updating that data too.

I didn't think <lr: hierarchicalSubject> is part of the IPTC spec.

I don't believe it is, no, but it's now an industry standard.

I didn't say PM isn't importing them, but take a look at the keywords yourself.  I'm not accusing PM of doing something wrong.  It does the right thing in preserving all that's available.  Your help page on importing from LR explains why the mess occurs.  I'm trying to find a way of preventing this mess by cleaning up my files before finally committing them to PM.

Please take a look a this thread: http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13877.0

I'm well aware of the concerns.  Take a look at the Keywords section of the Browse tree (or use the Keywords filter) and you'll see that your flat and hierarchical keywords are well represented and clearly delineated.  I wouldn't advise removing information that may be of use to you when you need to find photos.

-Kirk

I've no intention of loosing data, but please note: If you do a save from the Info pane, PM gives an error msg saying it can't read the caption.

[Michael Naylor]

Kirk,  I've just read the link you suggested (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13877.0), so I must withdraw my previous statement saying "PM is doing the right thing".  It is not.  PM should either treat the LR hierarchical "keywords" correctly, or ignore them all together.

[Kirk Baker]

Michael,

Kirk,  I've just read the link you suggested (http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=13877.0), so I must withdraw my previous statement saying "PM is doing the right thing".  It is not.  PM should either treat the LR hierarchical "keywords" correctly, or ignore them all together.

I disagree.  It's working perfectly fine.  How would you specify that we treat the hierarchical keywords "correctly" that is different from the way that we're currently treating them?

-Kirk

[KeithRJ]

Michael,

I have analysed your photo and the resuts are below:

Firstly I renamed your picture to pic.tif for ease of use

1. Ran the command to get Lightroom's hierarchical keywords: exiftool -hierarchicalSubject pic.tif
Hierarchical Subject            : #EVENT|Wedding, #PEOPLE|Family|Alys Naylor, #PEOPLE|Family|Cora Naylor, #PEOPLE|Family|Frank Naylor, #PEOPLE|Family|Grand Parents Hebden, #PEOPLE|Family|Hilda Naylor, #SCAN|SMALL

2. Ran command to get keywords: exiftool -keywords pic.tif
Keywords                        : #EVENT, #PEOPLE, #SCAN, Alys Naylor, Cora Naylor, Family, Frank Naylor, Grand Parents Hebden, Hilda Naylor, SMALL, Wedding

3. Looked at keywords in PMP (each keyword on a separate line and hierarchical keywords have '|' separating hierarchy:
#EVENT
#PEOPLE
#SCAN
Alys Naylor
Cora Naylor
Family
Frank Naylor
Grand Parents Hebden
Hilda Naylor
SMALL
Wedding
#EVENT | Wedding
#PEOPLE | Family | Alys Naylor
#PEOPLE | Family | Cora Naylor
#PEOPLE | Family | Frank Naylor
#PEOPLE | Family | Grand Parents Hebden
#PEOPLE | Family | Hilda Naylor
#SCAN | SMALL

PMP combines standard keywords and hierarchical keywords into the keywords field.

This issue you have is how you have created your hierarchy with tags for each level.  This makes it very difficult to extract just the people from your keywords.

Here is something you can do:

1. Use exiftool to copy keywords to IPTC persons: exiftool -overwrite_original "-personinimage<keywords" *.tif
This will overwrite your original files.  Remove the -overwrite_original tag to create backups
2. Use PMP to "Find and Replace" in the Persons Shown field for all the selected photos to remove unwanted tags and text.  Below is an example of what to remove, each line is a separate find and replace operation (the replace field should be empty)

#EVENT
#PEOPLE
#SCAN
SMALL
Wedding
Family
|

This should leave you with just people.

Hope this helps.