Capture Date changes -- Capture Date (PM) and Date Taken (Explorer) disagree

[marcopolo]

Question One:  Why do the Capture Dates for some of the photos change from their original date when I reopen a contact sheet? 

For example, when I open a contact sheet from a folder with say 100 or so scanned photos, the last 3-20 photos in the contact sheet have new Capture Dates (entered via Variable/ Time/ date, shot) -- usually 3 to 4 years earlier than the last time the folder was opened.  This occurs in most of the contact sheets when they are reopened.

All the files name include the initial Capture Date year (from the Variable menu / yr4) as the first part of the name.  But when I open a contact sheet and compare the year in the name of the photos  and Capture Dates year, the Capture Date is not the same.  In many instances it is decades different.  (Most of the original dates entered via Tools/Adjust Capture Date range from early 1900s to 2000.

Background:
-All of the images have been scanned as jpegs. 
-None of the scanned images are related to one another and the Capture Date is manually entered using Tools/Adjust Capture Date (alt T A). 
-The check box for Absolute Adjusted is selected. 
-In most photos the Capture Date (Variable / date, shot) is Jan 1 plus an estimated year.
-In the contact sheet the Capture Date is displayed below the photo by using the Variables menu.

After the photo dates are entered the photos are moved using File/CopyMove (Cntl Y) to folders named by the year.  When I open these folders/contact sheets to begin culling, rating, etc., the Capture Dates of the last few photos in the contact sheet have changed – some by days or months and most are changed by years.  When I open the Adjust Date menu the Adjust Relative box seems to reflect the last adjustment made to the last photo that was adjusted using Tool/Adjust Capture Date. 

I have always just ignored the Adjust Relative box because the scanned photographs are not related like they would be if shot with a digital camera or set at the time of scanning.

This second question may be related to the first …

Question Two:  Why is the Date Taken in File Explorer Properties different than the Capture Date in PH?  This happens occasionally and I have seen no consistent pattern.

Many times the Date Taken in the properties metadata that is displayed in the File Explorer window is the original correct Capture Date that I inserted at the beginning of the process but the Capture Date in PM is much later in time.

Attached are are screen shots showing examples of the e conflicts.

I am certain most of this is my misunderstanding of how the software works.  Please offer your suggestions.  I have just started with PM and think it’s great.  Thank you.  --Marcopolo

Am using PM 6, build 6375.  Windows 10x64.

[Kirk Baker]

Is there some way that you can share a file before you have modified the capture date with PM and the same file after you have modified the date, where you see this problem has occurred?

Then I can compare the two files to try to determine what is going on.

Thanks,

-Kirk

[marcopolo]

These two attached files have not been ingested.  The date on the single male figure is the scan date.  The date on couple was input manually by me probably using an early version of Photoshop Elements.  Thanks.  --Marcopolo

[Kirk Baker]

Thanks for the samples.  If I adjust the capture time with either of these files, will the problem be reproduced?

-Kirk

[marcopolo]

I have not tried to adjust anything with these two images.  I have not been able to predict which files will have their Capture Date change unknowingly.

As some background, each of my files (named by year) contain 75 to 300 images that were ingested from CDs or scanners.  Using the alt T A keys I adjust the dates using the Absolute option. 

Later, when I return to the same folders/contact sheets the capture dates of the last few images on the sheet have changed to a date much later.  Most of the capture dates of the images in the contact sheet have not changed, just the last few.  When  I open the Adjust Dates window I can see no relationship between the suggested changes in the year, month and day in the Relative box -- except that the suggested changes are the same year, month, day adjustments I made to an image in another folder/contact sheet immediately prior.

You have mentioned in other posts that the Absolute and Relative dates are connected, relational.  There must be something I am doing.  I hope you have some insight into this.  I do not trust the capture dates and that is a huge problem.  Thanks again.  --Marcopolo

[Kirk Baker]

OK, then please get me a sample file that has the wrong capture date.

Thanks,

-Kirk

[marcopolo]

This picture was taken in 1995.  The Capture Date was set at 1/1/1995 using the alt T A.  The file name was then created using {year4} plus a description.  When the file was opened later the Capture Date was different.  Thanks.  --Marcopolo

[marcopolo]

Here is a second picture taken in '95 and now with a capture date of '21.

For some reason the majority of pictures (hundreds) with the Capture Date changed have a new Capture Date of one of the two Capture Dates of these two images just sent to you:  '07 or '21.

[marcopolo]

This is a screen shot of scanned images taken in 1995 as listed in File Explorer and sorted by Date Taken.  The capture date set in PM was 1/1/1995.  You can see in the File Explorer list groups of images with identical Dates Taken.  Not sure is this is an additional clue or not.

[Kirk Baker]

Here is a second picture taken in '95 and now with a capture date of '21.

For some reason the majority of pictures (hundreds) with the Capture Date changed have a new Capture Date of one of the two Capture Dates of these two images just sent to you:  '07 or '21.

This file here.  What applications have touched it?

Here is some of the XMP metadata from within this file:
   exif:NativeDigest="36864,40960,40961,37121,37122,40962,40963,37510,40964,36867,36868,33434,33437,34850,34852,34855,34856,37377,37378,37379,37380,37381,37382,37383,37384,37385,37386,37396,41483,41484,41486,41487,41488,41492,41493,41495,41728,41729,41730,41985,41986,41987,41988,41989,41990,41991,41992,41993,41994,41995,41996,42016,0,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,20,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,30;AC611253EA3298A34C8FC0702921449D"
   exif:DateTimeOriginal="2021-04-30T14:23:25"
   xmp:MetadataDate="2021-04-30T14:23:25-06:00"
   xmp:CreateDate="2021-04-30T14:23:25"
   xmp:Rating="0"
   tiff:NativeDigest="256,257,258,259,262,274,277,284,530,531,282,283,296,301,318,319,529,532,306,270,271,272,305,315,33432;21F7C90EB8AA0A9E3E6116792984EC2A"

I can tell you that PM did not set the "MetadataDate" to 2021.  Photo Mechanic does not create/observe/update that property.  That property name does not exist in Photo Mechanic at all.  I have a feeling that some other application is updating your files and adding these additional fields like the two "NativeDigest" items.  Photo Mechanic doesn't do this.

What other software is in your workflow?

-Kirk

[marcopolo]

The image of the young man by the Magleby sign was taken using a film camera by me.  The image may have been opened by an early Photoshop Elements long ago.  After that it was saved to a CD using Windows 95  or 98.  After that it has been residing on the CD.  I cannot think of anything else that has used the image since then.  It may have been opened by Windows 10 recently or Windows Photos but I don't think so.  It may have been in a group of images that was uploaded to Dropbox a few years ago and downloaded back to my PC. 

A few years ago I tried Picassa but I'm not sure if this image was in that software.

Are you thinking of other software?  Photoshop Elements 14 is the latest version on my PC but it is used little.  No other editors or organizers.

Added Note:  Just checked iCloud photos in my ipad.  There are pictures there that were taken at the same time as this young man's picture but this specific image is not in the group on iCloud.  By the way, iCloud is the driving reason to use PM.

[Kirk Baker]

This is a long shot, but is the date on your computer correct?

-Kirk

[marcopolo]

Yes, I think the time is correct    I noticed when Windows 10 was installed. It's in the same month as many of the corrupted capture dates. 

I compared the Date Modified to the Date Taken in File Explorer properties to see if the Modified Date corresponded to the files with corrupted capture dates.  In many instances the same files with corrupted dates were all modified at the same date and time.  But the correlation was not consistent.

I feel bad taken so much of your time.  I'll keep digging around and see if something pops up.  --Marcopolo

[marcopolo]

I found three identical images with (3) different capture dates.  Does looking at these suggest any possible reason for the discrepancies in dates?

There are 30,000 plus images I have inherited.  Most are scanned with no dates.  I am trying to understand these discrepancies before taking the time to ensure the dates are at least in the right year.  Thanks.  --marcopolo

Am using PM 6, build 6375.  Windows 10x64.

[Kirk Baker]

Is there some way you can share the unaltered files with me, perhaps through some private method?  When you change the pixels in the file and re-save the file, who knows what all happens to it?

I'm assuming that the dates are incorrect without the alterations.  Have these files been touched by Photo Mechanic?

-Kirk