Author Topic: Subscription Model  (Read 48718 times)

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #120 on: March 24, 2024, 02:14:14 AM »
I have been using PM since V4, over 14 years.  As an enthusiastic photographer, not professional,  I guess I was never the target user.  Although I use PM everyday, now that I am retired I have to carefully evaluate each expense.  PM has certain advantages for professionals within a certain genre (sports), however I do not see its value outside of this narrow window.  I would have considered continuing with the software despite its new subscription model if it was a reasonable price, it is not.  To expect me to pay more than double what Adobe expects for PS is crazy.  I do not see what extra functionality can be provided to justify an ongoing development cost, read subscription.  PM is not nor should be an image editor so where do they go.
The world is being divided into those that have money for all the modern conveniences that are becoming essential and those that do not.  With the constant addition of subscriptions, read how many streaming services do we need, to what we really need to live.  I am not blaming nor targeting Camera Bits, it is merely a reflection of the world we live in.
Good luck for the future.  I shall use my current copy until it no longer functions.

Offline tgray

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #121 on: March 24, 2024, 07:59:51 AM »
I just realized PM is going to subscription.  I guess I'll throw in my two cents.  I've been using PM (non-professionally) since version 4 - almost 16 years to the day.

I get it.  Camerabits has gotten a bit over $400 from me in 14 years.  Not that much, and I've upgraded every version on release, including PMP.  That's only $30/year.  My thing is going from $25/yr to (checks price) $250/yr without the ability to run the program if I stop is a pretty steep increase.  Or $400 with only 1 year of upgrades.

They gotta run a business, so I'm guessing these numbers make sense to them, but for us hobbyists this a BIG increase in the cost of using PM(P).  Kind of sucks that there's nothing something a little more in line with the historical pricing.

Offline C-F

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #122 on: March 24, 2024, 01:04:37 PM »
I am a hobby photographer and been using PM off and on (ingesting) since ~2010.(always upgraded to date)
About a month ago I decided to seriously pick up the hobby again and include the catalog feature to my organisational workflow.
My photo housekeeping is a mess..
Now of course I find out it goes to 'subscription'- just my luck,lol.
I decided that Camerabits has always been very dedicated and supportive during my time as customer so I have in turn subscribed for one year now (still have my purchased copy of PM6+) and see where it goes, hell, I spend almost as much in smoking/month than the. subscription costs/year...
After the year I will see if it is worth to stay 'updated' or if I can just keep using my 'legacy' copy afterwards.
I believe it is a powerful, fast, and comprehensive organisational software (ingest - metadata- on/off line catalog over multiple drives).
AND, it is the only program that I am aware of, that lets you get away with NO xmp files - I hate xmp files - and still have all info at your fingertips!!!

And yes, I also believe there should be a discounted subscription price (~60% ?!?) for long term non professional customers as myself, oh well...

Offline greg2024

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #123 on: March 24, 2024, 01:34:47 PM »
I am a hobby photographer and been using PM off and on (ingesting) since ~2010.(always upgraded to date)
About a month ago I decided to seriously pick up the hobby again and include the catalog feature to my organisational workflow.
My photo housekeeping is a mess..
In addition to catching up on housekeeping I recently decided to bring my iPhone images in as full members of my catalog. There is no alternative to Photo Mechanic Plus that meets my expectations. Because of the cost I have looked and looked and just couldn't find a good alternative. Going back to Bridge, which has been slow and cumbersome, is my only workable fallback if I don't use Photo Mechanic.
I decided that Camerabits has always been very dedicated and supportive during my time as customer so I have in turn subscribed for one year now (still have my purchased copy of PM6+) and see where it goes, hell, I spend almost as much in smoking/month than the. subscription costs/year...
After the year I will see if it is worth to stay 'updated' or if I can just keep using my 'legacy' copy afterwards.
I believe it is a powerful, fast, and comprehensive organisational software (ingest - metadata- on/off line catalog over multiple drives).
AND, it is the only program that I am aware of, that lets you get away with NO xmp files - I hate xmp files - and still have all info at your fingertips!!!
Agree with you on all counts. I'm taking a similar approach. To expect an immediate turnaround with new features seems unrealistic. A year should tell.

Offline C-F

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2024, 02:28:34 PM »
Lol, maybe Elon Musk bought them out - that would make it happen  ;)  :) :) :)

Offline platti

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2024, 09:41:03 AM »
same here: I'm a longtime user, I prefer PM to any other software doing ingest and metadata settings.
But I do not see any reason to pay more than double price compared to Photoshop ... Folks, what the heck did you think???
greets from a hill
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Offline myotis

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2024, 11:40:31 AM »
After nearly 20 years of using PM, I'm among those who, with deep regret, will not be able to commit the subscription, but...

Camerabits is a small company producing a specialist product with outstanding technical support. It is a product, which as far as I am aware is unique and the code replacement tools as well as its speed make it well worth the subscription to those who need  the program. You can't compare the cost to a mass market product like Adobe Lightroom, or even Capture One, which in it's own way, is a bit of a niche product from a small company. Even if it's still a far bigger company than Camera Bits.

The time saved and the avoidance of human error by partially automating the culling, captioning, keywording, file renaming etc means that for the customers that PM is aimed at, PM could easily recover its subscription costs on a single job.

If I was still in professional photography,  or indeed  on a larger pension, I would be happy to pay the new subscription costs  just to allow me to spend less time at the computer. As well as being confident of continual improvement and excellent technical support.

Since the subscription announcement, I've been trialling using LR and C1 (both of which  already use) to do the parts of the workflow I currently do with Photo Mechanic.  I've also tried out a trial of another DAM, which offers a macro language which should duplicate some of PM capabilities.  I also already use Neofinder and Fast Raw Viewer as they both offer capabilities that PMPlus doesn't.

However, none of these, not even in combination match the ingestion and metadata management capability of Photo Mechanic, The DAM with macro language that I trialled had some problems and  it's now over a week since I emailed technical support, with so far, no reply.

PM technical support have always replied within 18 hours (it's probably quicker than this because of the time differences, but I always have a reply waiting for me the morning after I sent it).

Personally, I'm not all that happy with the situation, as I was hoping for something like Topaz does, where there s an initial larger purchase price and then a $99 annual update.

However, I can understand the need for a more reliable cash flow and the benefits of a smaller more specialist customer base with a strong commitment to using PM.

A small example of something I seem to only be able do in PM is to include the last three numbers of a camera's serial number in the file name on ingest

I have a work around this by manually changing the normal file prefix in camera to match the serial number e.g change DSC to 440.

BUT, I used to use this in camera using the Nikon memory banks)  so I could quickly change the file prefix to match different aspects of a days shooting. I didn’t do it very often but I now can't do it at all.

Once you get used to PM, it's very difficult, and rather sad, to leave it behind, but needs must.

I wish everyone at Camerabits all the very best and give them thanks for all the, sometimes very detailed, technical support they have given me over the years.




Offline Mick O (Camera Bits)

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2024, 02:53:02 PM »
Just to reiterate, Camera Bits still offers the option to purchase Photo Mechanic as a perpetual (i.e. non-subscription) license for a one-time charge that will continue to function for as long as your OS allows it.

Mick
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Offline greg2024

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Another way to look at the Subscription licensing
« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2024, 04:41:27 PM »
PM is an established product with a long history of excellent support. With Camera Bits we have a talented team with a track record of building a product to meet our needs. I see their subscription licensing as a necessity to maintain a successful business that also supports their team in a shrinking photography marketplace. Let's face it; there are far less people entering into the traditional photography environment that PM supports. New products are designed with a different user in mind. The bottom line here is that we either pay more or see this type of product go away as many of its features become just an afterthought in the much larger consumer photo marketplace. This is what Camera Bits has offered us. I see it as worthwhile, and will budget other expenses accordingly if necessary. I just don't see good alternatives now or becoming available in the future.

Having a long career in software product development I appreciate Camera Bits needs for a steady revenue stream. A shrinking market, driven by the demographics of the current photography marketplace means less new buyers. We can support Camera Bits efforts to keep this product available or we  acquiesce to a different model of organizing images. I expect that we will see mostly incremental improvements, but also keep in mind they have to deal with upgrading or rebuilding to match a platform that Microsoft and Apple continue to modify.  There is an opportunity to merge new technology in PM such as  AI and facial recognition to further improve productivity. I support their efforts to keep PM alive and see it improve.

Offline swagen

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2024, 11:28:46 PM »
Just to reiterate, Camera Bits still offers the option to purchase Photo Mechanic as a perpetual (i.e. non-subscription) license for a one-time charge that will continue to function for as long as your OS allows it.

Mick

Will there be an upgrade discount for previous perpetual license holders should they wish to upgrade to a newer version? I.e. I currently have Photo Mechanic Plus 6, and if I wish to purchase a perpetual license to the new  version, is there a discount? Also in the future, say 2 years from now, enough new features have accumulated and I want to purchase another perpetual license, as a previous license holder do I get a discount?

I think you should take a look at how DxO does it - you can buy the yearly release and get updates. When a new release is available - you can buy it at a discount, or skip it - they support the 2 latest versions. And you can get the upgrade pricing for up to 2 releases behind - e.g. if one has PhotoLab 6, decides to skip 7 but can still get 8 at an upgrade discount. If one also skips 8 - then 9 would be full price from 6, etc.

Offline vale

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2024, 11:32:16 AM »
Just to reiterate, Camera Bits still offers the option to purchase Photo Mechanic as a perpetual (i.e. non-subscription) license for a one-time charge that will continue to function for as long as your OS allows it.

Mick

Yeah, but that version of PM is now DOUBLE that it was a few weeks ago, without a major update on software part.

@swagen - the subscription model is already out. If there was a 'promotion' for old users, it is supposed that you receive it through email. If not, pay the new 'upgraded' price.

Offline threiner

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #131 on: March 29, 2024, 09:44:23 AM »
Just to reiterate, Camera Bits still offers the option to purchase Photo Mechanic as a perpetual (i.e. non-subscription) license for a one-time charge that will continue to function for as long as your OS allows it.

Mick

just a quick question, is there no upgrade options for old users? And why is the price increased so much? The price is more then doubel what it used to be.

Offline bwana

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #132 on: March 29, 2024, 09:49:34 AM »
Just to reiterate, Camera Bits still offers the option to purchase Photo Mechanic as a perpetual (i.e. non-subscription) license for a one-time charge that will continue to function for as long as your OS allows it.

Mick

just a quick question, is there no upgrade options for old users? And why is the price increased so much? The price is more then doubel what it used to be.
Several members, including myself, have made similar enquiries as to an upgrade pricing but to no avail... so far.

As for the steep price I can only imagine it's intended to act as a deterrent. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline Kirk Baker

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #133 on: March 29, 2024, 10:17:52 AM »
We have had various price changes over the years.  We even tried lowering the price for a while which didn't produce increased sales beyond the expectation of a new version release.  Photo Mechanic has stayed at around $150 for a new license for most of its 20+ year span.  Our costs have increased as have costs for all kinds of things (food, clothing, electricity, gasoline, health insurance, cars, rent, houses, etc.) but PM has had roughly the same price.

We're currently considering upgrade pricing for existing perpetual customers that want to move to the new perpetual license.  When we have reached a decision, we'll let you know.  We don't expect that many of you current PM6 users will want to move to the new perpetual Photo Mechanic license because, frankly, as Max said, there isn't much different about the new release.  This is true.  But that will change in the coming months and perhaps eventually some of you will want to take advantage of an upgrade price.

-Kirk

Offline swagen

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Re: Subscription Model
« Reply #134 on: March 29, 2024, 02:45:03 PM »
I have no trouble paying for upgrades. What I have trouble is software - not a service, which has server costs - just stopping working if I stop paying. Hence, I'm avoiding pure subscription-based software, and for Photo Mechanic Plus I'm only considering the perpetual license. However, I think the current perpetual license price is too steep for yearly upgrades, but will wait to see what upgrade discounts/incentives you come up with - and also your promised roadmap of what's to come - before making a decision.

Meanwhile, like CameraBits staff said, my Photo Mechanic Plus continues to work fine, even though it being Intel-only is a major annoyance - you say the performance won't be any different on Apple Silicon, but with all of the other software that went from Intel to Apple Silicon - I've noticed one huge benefit - startup time is greatly reduced, and laptop battery life going up and temperatures going down. And I don't keep Photo Mechanic constantly running, I launch and stop the program multiple times a day.