Keywords assigned and displayed not read by other software

[30west]

Photo Mechanic Plus Version 2025.1, build 8239 (63d9685) macOS Sonoma, MacBook Pro M4

All files have keywords assigned and visible in PM+ but SOME HEIC files' keywords are not read by other software (Graphic Converter Apple Photos, and ON1). Other sequential files' keywords ARE read by these apps. For example Photo1 is read, Photo2 is not, Photo 3,4 5 are then Photo6 not and so on. They all have the same basic template of keywords with year and location. Some have additional keywords for people. I am at a complete loss as to what is causing this behavior.

My workflow starts with PM+ with subsequent editing and in the case of raw files exported to HEIC for "sharing". This only seems to occur with HEIC format, but since most HEIC files' metadata is read by these other programs, it is amystery why some of them are not.

[Kirk Baker]

Photo Mechanic Plus Version 2025.1, build 8239 (63d9685) macOS Sonoma, MacBook Pro M4

All files have keywords assigned and visible in PM+ but SOME HEIC files' keywords are not read by other software (Graphic Converter Apple Photos, and ON1). Other sequential files' keywords ARE read by these apps. For example Photo1 is read, Photo2 is not, Photo 3,4 5 are then Photo6 not and so on. They all have the same basic template of keywords with year and location. Some have additional keywords for people. I am at a complete loss as to what is causing this behavior.

My workflow starts with PM+ with subsequent editing and in the case of raw files exported to HEIC for "sharing". This only seems to occur with HEIC format, but since most HEIC files' metadata is read by these other programs, it is amystery why some of them are not.

Can you post one of the files that is giving you trouble?  Use the 'Attachments and other options' link when you're composing your reply to this message and there you'll be able to upload your HEIC file.

Also, you should read this thread:

https://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=16475

-Kirk

[30west]

Kirk, thanks for the reply. I DID read the link you provided but it seems like the flow of workload in that case was opposite of mine, where I start with PM+ and then open the files in other software...at least I THINK that was how this folder of files were done. I have attached 2 files. File "21" does show keywords in Graphic Converter 12, where "22" does not. It's a bit like herding cats here because I MAY have initially keyworded these files in Photo Supreme, before returning to PM+. As per earlier discussion, I ran the "search and replace" to remove the LR formatted "structured" keyword duplicates to a flat list in PM+ (ver 2025.1). It would SEEM that PM+ would be in control of the files' metadata at this point after doing a "catalog sync". It may be a moot issue when new photos are added, and some early experimentation makes this seem to be the case, but because the files that don't have keywords read by other software is "intermittent", I'm not sure that it is a reliable assumption. Perhaps these two files will reveal something to you that I am unable to resolve.
Thanks....gary

[dennis]

I think if you re-read the link Kirk provided it may become clear but here is another rendition.

HEIC's from iPhone can be edited to create two images. I thought this was only by using Apple's software but it could be others.
I think the original HEIC only has one image and no XMP metadata (other than internal XMP for Apple's purposes, not for IPTC stuff).
When the original photo is edited by "?" (e.g. Photos) it creates an additional image. And the metadata record that is created therefore belongs to BOTH images.
PM had a bug where it would ignore any XMP that belonged to more than one image (I didn't think it was possible), and therefore it created a second XMP block where it wrote the updated metadata. This new XMP block is not compatible for other software. PM shows this but other software only shows metadata added by Photos for example.
So you may have some photos untouched by any "?" software and PM should properly add metadata because it doesn't already exist. This should be compatible with other apps. But as soon as a second image is added then PM will not recognize the XMP (because it belongs to two images).

This is a complicated issue to explain.

The final PM version has a fix for this going forward, but how this works is that it will not recognize it's own XMP metadata created by older versions of PM, but it will properly update the "correct" block of XMP going forward.

There is another post with a proposed script to fix this by re-ingesting photos from phone (as-taken) then uses Exiftool to grab PM's XMP updates and put them back "correctly" into the newly ingested photo. We cannot vouch for this script - it will require a lot of testing and post-mortem analysis. If this actually works then perhaps we can try to implement a similar fix in PM. No promises here - we don't have Exiftool embedded in PM.

HEIC files are meant to hold multiple images, which is a concept that is foreign to PM.

HTH

--dennis

[30west]

Many thanks for looking into this. In some discussions with A.H on your staff, it became apparent that SOME of my files had been "corrupted" for lack of a better term using some other software. Your explanation while a bit "over my head" does make sense given the way you describe multiple blocks and images in the HEIF format. I continue to use some "real cameras" during travel and clearly have no problems with non HEIF files. My Fuji X-T5 provides for "HIF" files in addition to RAF (raw), but I haven't used them and will not for sure now. I almost wish that iPhone photos weren't as good as they are...but GEEZ, they are hard to beat except maybe in a studio scenario.

I appreciate the outstanding support and efforts by you and your staff. This is part of what makes PM a premium product and the Gold Standard. I need to rethink whether the advantages of HEIF over Jpeg (on the iPhone) are worth the complications.

gary