Remaining confused as to why imported files show flat AND hierarchical keywords

[30west]

This is certainly not a new issue, but almost all of my files were originally keywords in Lightroom and I am aware of the issue where LR has its own fields in xml where keywords are duplicated in a flat list in addition to the hierarchical list. I have previously followed advice to do "Find and Replace" to "flatten" the list of keywords. A flat list of my keywords is just too unwieldy.

When I add new files and tag them from my "Structured Keyword Panel", the keywords are simply separated by commas and show up in my catalog metadata keywords list by line item as opposed to "nested" inside the Categories like the ones imported from other software.

So I guess I need more clarity on how hierarchical keywords are intended to display in Photo Mechanic. I'm not seeing any "drag and drop" feature to "nest" the flat keywords into categories, but is there a way to do so?

Are there any RECENT tutorials or online guides as to how this is supposed to work?

thanks

gary

[ahoward]

This is certainly not a new issue, but almost all of my files were originally keywords in Lightroom and I am aware of the issue where LR has its own fields in xml where keywords are duplicated in a flat list in addition to the hierarchical list. I have previously followed advice to do "Find and Replace" to "flatten" the list of keywords. A flat list of my keywords is just too unwieldy.

This seems to be at odds with the title of the thread. You've described why images keyworded in Lightroom show as both "flat" and "structured" keywords: it puts both in the XMP.

When I add new files and tag them from my "Structured Keyword Panel", the keywords are simply separated by commas and show up in my catalog metadata keywords list by line item as opposed to "nested" inside the Categories like the ones imported from other software.

If you're only getting keywords separated by commas, it sounds like you need to check the box that says "Use separator between keywords in path" in the Structured Keywords Panel. Then, if you set your double-click behavior to "Adds path..." or "Applies path..." when you double-click a keyword, each keyword in the path will be separated by a | character, which is used to determine the next "level" in the hierarchy. 

So I guess I need more clarity on how hierarchical keywords are intended to display in Photo Mechanic. I'm not seeing any "drag and drop" feature to "nest" the flat keywords into categories, but is there a way to do so?

I'm assuming you are using Photo Mechanic Plus here and are attempting to drag and drop images to the area in the Browse tab showing the keywords? There's no drag and drop interface, but if you apply keywords as I suggested above you should see them appear in the correct structure in the Browse tab. Hope that helps.

[30west]

Thanks for that. I am using Photo Mechanic Plus version 2025.10, build 8858

I did as you suggest with the "add separator" in the Structured Keyword dialog. It does add separators, but in the catalog - metadata - keywords...photos tagged that way appear in the FLAT keyword list, but not the "nested" keyword list. I guess I'm thinking that when I tag a photo from the Structured Keyword dialog, the keywords will be hierarchical and therefore be contained in the "nested" list of keywords rather than the "flat" keyword list.

What I'd like to do is get all of the flat keywords removed, since I THINK they are also keywords in the Hierarchial (nested) keywords . I'm not sure if this makes sense, but if it does...then is there any way to do that?.....thanks....gary

[30west]

Addition to previous post about Structured keywords with separators not appearing in nested keyword list:

It dawned on me that for the keywords to show in the nested keyword list, the CATEGORY needs to be included in the file keywords. I do not see how to make that happen in the Structure Keyword Panel.

thanks

[ahoward]

I guess I'm thinking that when I tag a photo from the Structured Keyword dialog, the keywords will be hierarchical and therefore be contained in the "nested" list of keywords rather than the "flat" keyword list.

Yes, that is how it worked for me. I'm not sure why the behavior is different for you. It might be simplest if we worked through this in real-time via a phone call.

What I'd like to do is get all of the flat keywords removed, since I THINK they are also keywords in the Hierarchial (nested) keywords . I'm not sure if this makes sense, but if it does...then is there any way to do that?.....thanks....gary

We should be able to take care of this with a find and replace, but again, I'd prefer to talk through it on a phone call than take a stab at the solution here and not have it be the right thing. Send an email to support@camerabits.com and we can set something up.

[30west]

Thanks, a phone call will probably clear a lot of my confusion and issues. I will call in the next day or two. I re-read several forum posts going back a few years on this very common and recurring issue. Carl Siebert's explanation that these all just end up in a "bucket" of individual searchable keywords is enlightening for sure. I think I am largely distracted by the "ugliness" of the displayed keywords in the Catalog - Browse - Metadata - Keywords view. I would leave it at that, but the "ugliness" carries over into other apps, notably DXO Photolab, which has also been discussed on this forum.

So this obnoxious Lightroom duplication of fields in the XMP is clearly NOT the fault of Photo Mechanic, and even if Camerbits decided to "hide" the duplicates, they would still show up in some other software. What I would REALLY like would be some way to strip that LR field showing "flat" keywords, so that PM, DxO, and other software would have one set of keywords (Structured) to work with. Does Photo Mechanic have this (stripping) capability, or does anyone on the forum know of software that does?  I have NONE of this issue with files tagged AFTER leaving LR.
Thanks....gary